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Author Topic: 3 Day Program  (Read 340951 times)

DRY

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2014, 05:53:16 PM »
Quote

What have you tried? Lets get that out of the way first.

The most commonly approach I have is to do some work with the competition lift on Wednesday (say on average, 5 sets of 3 with 72.5%) then do a second lift which would be either pause at knee, against light bands, or off of blocks.  This would usually be another 15 total reps divided up based on the exercise.  For against bands, it might be 3 sets of 5 with 66% of max bar weight.  Then a 3rd exercise that is very light such as stiff leg deadlift with 100kg. 

Lately I have tried to add in more competition deadlifts on Fridays, and have tried both doing between 5 and 10 singles with ~90% or doing as light as 15 total reps at under 70%. 

I pull sumo.  Here is my best successful competition deadlift

Here is my most recent competition deadlifts


I know I am not built well to deadlift, short arms and narrow hips, but I feel as though nobody is built so poorly that they squat 330 and can only pull 262.5.  I have to be able to get upto at least 275 without excuses

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2014, 06:44:17 PM »
I think the single best thing to do would be to add another day and move your Friday deadlifts to Saturday if that's possible. Are you doing both squats and deadlifts on Friday? You've also got a long way to lift the bar until it reaches your knees. Getting really strong in the first half probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it were me I'd try some deficit deadlifts up to the knees, pauses at and below the knees, deadlifts with chains, and deadlifts from below the knees with slow eccentrics. I'd do those at around ~80%, whatever gives you decent bar speed. These will still feel like more that 80% anyway but the absolute stress will be lower. That might let you do more and recover from it better than doing full deadlifts at 90%.

DRY

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2014, 06:57:48 PM »
I think the single best thing to do would be to add another day and move your Friday deadlifts to Saturday if that's possible. Are you doing both squats and deadlifts on Friday? You've also got a long way to lift the bar until it reaches your knees. Getting really strong in the first half probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

If it were me I'd try some deficit deadlifts up to the knees, pauses at and below the knees, deadlifts with chains, and deadlifts from below the knees with slow eccentrics. I'd do those at around ~80%, whatever gives you decent bar speed. These will still feel like more that 80% anyway but the absolute stress will be lower. That might let you do more and recover from it better than doing full deadlifts at 90%.
Currently yes they are the same day.  I have a smaller squatting load on Fridays because of this.  I do all 3 in competition order on Fridays.  I could move it to Saturday but being married and the gym doesn't open until 11am makes it inconvenient.  I think that is the next logical step though.  After moving in a few weeks hopefully my situation will be easier.  I'll give these exercises a shot.  I will say that it is very difficult for me to do deficit deadlifts.  I have big issues doing 3 reps with 70%, and am fairly sure I would fail 80%.  My back position just has to be too bad in order to get down to the bar.  Thanks for your help!

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2014, 07:12:03 PM »
Scratch the deficit deadlift if it puts you in a bad position. That would probably hurt more than help.

DRY

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2014, 07:24:44 PM »
Scratch the deficit deadlift if it puts you in a bad position. That would probably hurt more than help.
What would be best to replace it with?  Most focus on the top half (blocks, bands, chains).  Pausing at the knee and slower deadlifts?

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2014, 08:24:35 PM »
Check out Belyaev's deadlift here.



It's almost at his knees just after he breaks it off the floor and his legs are already in a powerful position. You've got about 4 more inches to pull until you get into that position. So getting stronger in this range should help. You could do a 2 second pause below the knees (maybe just below the top of your socks), before continuing up. Maybe do this one first then some slow eccentrics off blocks for the second round of deadlifts. Also, I like to do more ~70% stuff one week and more ~80% stuff the next week. 

DRY

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2014, 09:14:58 PM »
Check out Belyaev's deadlift here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnO_sS0I374

It's almost at his knees just after he breaks it off the floor and his legs are already in a powerful position. You've got about 4 more inches to pull until you get into that position. So getting stronger in this range should help. You could do a 2 second pause below the knees (maybe just below the top of your socks), before continuing up. Maybe do this one first then some slow eccentrics off blocks for the second round of deadlifts. Also, I like to do more ~70% stuff one week and more ~80% stuff the next week.
Is there any way to fix this?  Or is it just the length of my bones?

DRY

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2014, 05:21:47 PM »
Dave, looking at your video it strike me that your knees are locking out very late in the lift, as if you are finishing the lift with your legs. Looking at the video Robert posted of Belyaev's lift you can see he locks his knees before he is fully upright. He finishes the lift not by locking his knees but by thrusting his hips.

You're familiar with Alex's channel of course but this video demonstrate the knees and hips locking as two distinct movements well, particularly Hsieh and Danilov.

 Thoughts?
I have tried working on that lately.  It seems to me that I can't really start forcing my knees more until the bar passes them, and I am 90% locked out at that time anyways though.  I have been trying however to emulate Pozdeev's head position and knee/back timing lately

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2014, 07:14:24 PM »
Is there any way to fix this?  Or is it just the length of my bones?

Longer bones. Standing wide with your knees turned out brings your hips closer to your knees (when viewed from the side) and simulates a shorter femur. So there's that. As for below your knees, your can try to compensate by getting stronger specifically in that range. Pauses will help that. Also the chains should help you accelerate the bar. Combining a little extra strength at the bottom with acceleration should get that bar up there.

BirkirkaraBarbell

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2014, 12:38:21 AM »
Thanks for your kind reply Robert
We previously were presented with a 29-30-31-32 model which some described as a Preparation (29), Accumulation (30), Transmutation (31), Realisation/Peaking (32) scenario.  In fact a number of lifters described 32 as too much of too little when performing it after 8 weeks of moderate training (eg. 29-37-32 or 37-37-32).  However it made sense to be performed at the end of 16 weeks of work, especially after the high volume/moderate intensity 30 and medium volume/medium to high intensity 31. 
However we are now presented with a model which suggests that 30 and 31 produce the same result and are solely interchangeable according to the bodyweight of the lifter and that the cycle should be 12 weeks long rather than 16.  Also the peaking cycle remains a four weeker, whether the whole cycle is 12 or 16 weeks long.
I understand that coaches learn and gain experience, and learn what works best overtime.  Less warm up sets is one of the changes from the original templates to the present day ones.
can anybody who is in touch with the man himself explain the concept behind these 12 and 16 week model changes?

Your source of info is suspect. 29, 30, 31, 32, and 37 come from a variety of different sources. They do not constitute a training program, as designed by Sheiko. 37 and 32 came from one book for example and were presented in that book as single examples of a prep and comp period, respectively. Boris intentionally presented only samples and not complete training programs because he didn't want the book to be too long. Somewhere else, someone has given these programs their own interpretation. That's not necessarily bad though. You are supposed to be making them work for you. For example, here you have 2 different programs for different people. Everyone has different needs.

Boris Sheiko

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2014, 01:08:13 PM »
For rest periods, if you do - Squat 50% 5х1set, 60% 5х1set, 70% (2+4+6+8+7+5+3) reps

I recommend for 70% the following:
2reps - rest 3min,
4reps - rest 3min,
6reps- rest 5min,
8reps- rest 5-6min,
7reps- rest 5-6min,
5reps- rest 5-6 min,
3reps- rest 3-4 min.

Do not forget that the heavier you are the longer recovery you need.

bepi

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2014, 07:26:13 PM »
What if one trains and competes raw?
Does one have to up the % a little bit, maybe especially in the squat?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 07:27:47 PM by bepi »

Bench Polkov

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2014, 09:19:56 PM »
What if one trains and competes raw?
Does one have to up the % a little bit, maybe especially in the squat?

No.

bepi

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2014, 04:53:09 PM »
Another Yes/No question. Adapting this program for women: any changes in intensity needed?

Pimptasty

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2014, 06:19:45 PM »
Boris, you should give your program more credit. While it clearly is a PLing program, I've successfully used it for BBing and strongman with just a few changes to the program. I never was able to elicit significant hypertrophy until I tried Sheiko. The sheer volume of the program is great for size.

I'm not sure what your thought on hypertrophy are, but I know that Zatsiorsky implies that heavy lifting is great for hypertrophy.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 08:05:30 PM by Pimptasty »