November 22, 2019, 03:19:57 AM

Author Topic: 3 Day Program  (Read 350348 times)

BuccioniPL

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2014, 07:18:32 PM »
Hey I'm looking at the Sheiko for over 80kg spreadsheet and was wondering if these are some of the recommended accessory exercises.

Chest Muscle - Dumbbell Fly
Abs - Cable Crunch
Lat Muscle - Lat pulldown
Triceps - Tricep Pushdown
Delts - Lateral Raises

Thanks!

 

Sound reasonable! I make more or less the same. Sometimes skull crashes for triceps.
"Hard in the training, easy in the battle"

brickonwheels

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2014, 08:09:31 PM »
First post so forgive all the questions.

I have been running the common form of #37 for over a year now with very good results.  Typically, I will run it consecutively, adding 5-10 pounds per month to each lift.  With this new three month program outline, I'm unsure of how to progress.  Should poundage be added between cycles, or only at the end?  Additionally, what if I don't plan on maxing as often as would be called for in the 3 month plan?  Can I just bounce between #37 and #31 for as long as I want?

You seem to be using #37 like it is 5/3/1 or a similar undulating linear periodisation template. The way you've been doing it is not really how the program was intended to work within a longer training plan. #37 is just a 4 week preparatory block to be used as part of a larger periodised program.

The progress comes through skill development and by stressing the lifter through the preparatory period (#29, #30, #31 and #37 are all examples of prep cycles) by undulating training volume, then allowing the lifter to peak using a comp/peaking cycle (eg #32). You use the same 1RM throughout the entire 3 month program.

Progress doesn't come from increasing poundage in a linear fashion, ie fixed increments every 4 weeks.  Although that has clearly worked for you in the past, it is not sustainable.

If you manage to increase your 1RM in the skills test in the first week of #32 or at the competition/test at the end of #32, you use that 1RM the next time you run the cycle.

It has been suggested that if you find the prep cycle too easy, you are better off increasing volume (more sets, more training days) rather than adding poundage, as this will allow better skill development and reduce the risk of injury.

Would it suffice to run #37 then #31, then the first maxing part of #32 before starting over?  This would still have me maxing every two and a half months which seems rather often.

Bench Polkov

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2014, 08:32:36 PM »
Suppose there aren't exactly 12 weeks between planned competitions. What modifications or extra preparatory weeks might one do if there are 11 weeks available or 14 weeks?

Eg I did a test a week ago then took a week off. I now have 14 weeks until the next comp. What I do the next 2 weeks?

Anyone got some suggestions on the above?

If you have a 12 week plan but there are more than 12 weeks I usually just pick the harder 2 week section of the cycle and repeat that, but I'm a sucker for punishment. If its shorter than 12 I usually cut the first week (as its often the easiest) or a week out of the comp cycle as I've run a lot of 3 week tapers quite successfully.

This week I returned to training and I am doing the final week of #37, as this seemed to have a good balance of volume/intensity and I didn't want to lose any conditioning.

Next week, I was thinking of simply doing week 1, before starting the 12 week cycle, meaning I do week 1 twice in a row.

Ie for 14 weeks, it would go:
1. Wk 4 of 37
2. Wk 1 of 37
3. Wk 1 of 37
4. Wk 2 of 37
5. Wk 3 of 37
6. Wk 4 of 37
7. Wk 1 of 31
8. Wk 2 of 31
9. Wk 3 of 31
10. Wk 4 of 31
11. Wk 1 of 32
12. Wk 2 of 32
13. Wk 3 of 32
14. Wk 4 of 32 - comp

Or should I do something with reduced volume these first 2 extra weeks?

Bench Polkov

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2014, 08:39:23 PM »
First post so forgive all the questions.

I have been running the common form of #37 for over a year now with very good results.  Typically, I will run it consecutively, adding 5-10 pounds per month to each lift.  With this new three month program outline, I'm unsure of how to progress.  Should poundage be added between cycles, or only at the end?  Additionally, what if I don't plan on maxing as often as would be called for in the 3 month plan?  Can I just bounce between #37 and #31 for as long as I want?

You seem to be using #37 like it is 5/3/1 or a similar undulating linear periodisation template. The way you've been doing it is not really how the program was intended to work within a longer training plan. #37 is just a 4 week preparatory block to be used as part of a larger periodised program.

The progress comes through skill development and by stressing the lifter through the preparatory period (#29, #30, #31 and #37 are all examples of prep cycles) by undulating training volume, then allowing the lifter to peak using a comp/peaking cycle (eg #32). You use the same 1RM throughout the entire 3 month program.

Progress doesn't come from increasing poundage in a linear fashion, ie fixed increments every 4 weeks.  Although that has clearly worked for you in the past, it is not sustainable.

If you manage to increase your 1RM in the skills test in the first week of #32 or at the competition/test at the end of #32, you use that 1RM the next time you run the cycle.

It has been suggested that if you find the prep cycle too easy, you are better off increasing volume (more sets, more training days) rather than adding poundage, as this will allow better skill development and reduce the risk of injury.

Would it suffice to run #37 then #31, then the first maxing part of #32 before starting over?  This would still have me maxing every two and a half months which seems rather often.

If you have a while between meets why not repeat the prep cycles without the comp cycle and see how you respond. Maybe run #37, #37, #31 and possibly increase the volume slightly in the 2nd run of #37 by adding a few extra sets per week.

gp

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2014, 01:20:07 PM »
If you have a 12 week plan but there are more than 12 weeks I usually just pick the harder 2 week section of the cycle and repeat that, but I'm a sucker for punishment. If its shorter than 12 I usually cut the first week (as its often the easiest) or a week out of the comp cycle as I've run a lot of 3 week tapers quite successfully.

Excellent.  Thanks.  I think I will repeat week 1 to make up the remaining 13 weeks. Doing week 4 as the 1st week after a break was hard.

sdc

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #80 on: June 24, 2014, 02:29:16 PM »
For rest periods, if you do - Squat 50% 5х1set, 60% 5х1set, 70% (2+4+6+8+7+5+3) reps

I recommend for 70% the following:
2reps - rest 3min,
4reps - rest 3min,
6reps- rest 5min,
8reps- rest 5-6min,
7reps- rest 5-6min,
5reps- rest 5-6 min,
3reps- rest 3-4 min.

Do not forget that the heavier you are the longer recovery you need.

I've been using pretty short rest periods (1-2 minutes) for squats out of habit since I previously did not have as much time to lift. The weights are still based off my programmed max.

Would it be better to rest longer and autoregulate using higher weights?

I guess I'm asking if lower rest sets would have the same adaptation as higher weights. And if I do increase the weights how to do I determine what weights to use? Bar speed? Rate of perceived exertion?

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2014, 03:19:04 PM »
I've been using pretty short rest periods (1-2 minutes) for squats out of habit since I previously did not have as much time to lift. The weights are still based off my programmed max.

Would it be better to rest longer and autoregulate using higher weights?

I guess I'm asking if lower rest sets would have the same adaptation as higher weights. And if I do increase the weights how to do I determine what weights to use? Bar speed? Rate of perceived exertion?

I think a good guiding rule is to ask if your technique will improve or not by doing something. If it will likely improve, do it. So would using shorter rest times improve technique? Probably not. Would using higher weights improve technique? Possibly if used properly. Form issues usually start showing up around 85%. You could briefly use heavy weights as a way to get a closer look at what you need to work on, then bring it back down where you can develop better bar speed and also pick some special exercises to work on what you discovered.

FreakGoHome

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2014, 08:23:09 AM »
I'm making my own edit of the +80kg spreadsheet to correct some errors, provide further breakdown and make some stylistic adjustments. In the process I found a meaningful error. Volume calculations page has the Squat NLs of Week 1 of #31 listed as 87 when it should read 79. The calculation in the hidden columns on the #31 slide for that "2,4,6,7,5,3" set at 70% is incorrect. It lists the NLs as 35 when the 27.

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2014, 09:26:47 AM »
I'm making my own edit of the +80kg spreadsheet to correct some errors, provide further breakdown and make some stylistic adjustments. In the process I found a meaningful error. Volume calculations page has the Squat NLs of Week 1 of #31 listed as 87 when it should read 79. The calculation in the hidden columns on the #31 slide for that "2,4,6,7,5,3" set at 70% is incorrect. It lists the NLs as 35 when the 27.

Thanks for proof reading it. The link in the first post now points to the fixed version.

Want to post yours? Some people might like what you've done.

FreakGoHome

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #84 on: June 28, 2014, 01:07:50 PM »
Robert, I'm having trouble understanding why certain values have been calculated for and/or plotted on the volume calculations pages of the uploaded templates.

For example, why bother calculating and plotting "Avg Wt." ie. average bar weight. What does this help demonstrate? Wouldn't a more helpful and logical value to put in its place be volume ie. tonnage. Surely this is a more useful value than average bar weight. Similarly we calculate volume and NLs in columns adjacent to one another in all the # sheets but only introduce calculations for average weight on the volume calcs page.

Likewise, why do we calculate and plot the distribution of total weekly NLs between each of the competition lifts and not the distribution of total competition lift NLs between weeks? Once again, surely this data would be more valuable.

Still working on my spreadsheet. I'm not very familiar with excel so I'm learning as I go.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:08:28 PM by FreakGoHome »

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #85 on: June 28, 2014, 02:43:03 PM »
Robert, I'm having trouble understanding why certain values have been calculated for and/or plotted on the volume calculations pages of the uploaded templates.

For example, why bother calculating and plotting "Avg Wt." ie. average bar weight. What does this help demonstrate? Wouldn't a more helpful and logical value to put in it's place be volume ie. tonnage. Surely this is a more useful value than average bar weight. Similarly we calculate volume and NLs in columns adjacent to one another in all the # sheets but only introduce calculations for average weight on the volume calcs page.

Likewise, why do we calculate and plot the distribution of total weekly NLs between each of the competition lifts and not the distribution of total competition lift NLs between weeks? Once again, surely this data would be more valuable.

Still working on my spreadsheet. I'm not very familiar with excel so I'm learning as I go.

Average weight lifted (AWL) is a measure of the absolute intensity while the number of lifts (NL) is a measure of volume.

Absolute Intensity vs. Relative Intensity
Most people are more familiar with relative intensity, i.e. 90% 1RM. Tracking this number won't show you your progression in strength as the absolute intensity does. As you get stronger the average weight goes up. It also won't tell you if your workout was 10 sets of deadlifts at 90% or 10 sets of wrist curls at 90%. So using the average weight lifted has a few advantages over relative intensity.

Number of Lifts vs. Tonnage
The number of lifts is a more objective assessment of the volume of loading than the tonnage. To see why consider two people that lift 100 tons in one month. One person lifted an average weight of 70kg and the other 110kg. So the first person did 1,429 lifts and the second did 909 lifts. Looking at these numbers you can get an idea about their qualification levels, weight class and age.

The problem with AWL is that it doesn't tell you anything about what the lifters did to reach an average weight of 70kg. Did they do straight sets of 70kg or did they do sets of 55, 65, 75, and 85? This is where the breakdown into relative intensity zones becomes useful. From week to week your AWL will remain fairly steady until you start using more weight. But looking at the distribution of lifts in the different zones tells you how the loading changes from week to week. One week you might have a higher emphasis on 70-79% and the next you may have more 80-89%.

Why do the breakdown for individual lifts instead of total lifts? So you can see that there is a rational distribution of volume among the lifts, the same way that the intensity zones let you see a rational distribution of intensity within the lifts. You could have your bench and squat varying nicely from week to week while your deadlift is the same old thing. You'd never see that in the total.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 03:06:12 PM by Robert Frederick »

FreakGoHome

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2014, 03:11:11 PM »
Comparing the -80kg and +80kg templates I notice some discrepancy in the assistance work*. In the -80kg templates it mostly consists of flys, good mornings, lunges and ab work. In the new +80kg templates we see lat and delt work added, hyperextensions brought into rotation with good mornings and so on. Any ideas as to why the changes have been made?

Any rules by which this assistance work is prescribed? For example, standing good mornings, seated good mornings and hyperextensions all form part of the rotation for a "slot". Similar story with french presses, dips and "triceps" all being rotations for another slot. My guess would be that the variations allow for modulation of stress. A hyperextension is less stressful than a seated good morning which is less stressful than a standing good morning. However that still doesn't answer the question of how the slots are determined, how their stress is distributed across the cycle and how reps and sets are chosen.

Anyone interested in giving some suggestions?

*Is it really "assistance work"? What would be the more correct term? Accessory? Developmental? Additional? GPP?

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2014, 04:37:20 PM »
Comparing the -80kg and +80kg templates I notice some discrepancy in the assistance work*. In the -80kg templates it mostly consists of flys, good mornings, lunges and ab work. In the new +80kg templates we see lat and delt work added, hyperextensions brought into rotation with good mornings and so on. Any ideas as to why the changes have been made?

Any rules by which this assistance work is prescribed? For example, standing good mornings, seated good mornings and hyperextensions all form part of the rotation for a "slot". Similar story with french presses, dips and "triceps" all being rotations for another slot. My guess would be that the variations allow for modulation of stress. A hyperextension is less stressful than a seated good morning which is less stressful than a standing good morning. However that still doesn't answer the question of how the slots are determined, how their stress is distributed across the cycle and how reps and sets are chosen.

Anyone interested in giving some suggestions?

*Is it really "assistance work"? What would be the more correct term? Accessory? Developmental? Additional? GPP?

Remember that these are universal programs. They are just examples really. Were Boris to write an individual program he'd observe your lifts in action then prescribe some exercises to correct technical faults and other exercises to strengthen weak muscles. In the two example programs he's showing you how they can differ for two people.

In making your own changes to the program that's the same thing you should be doing. What are your technical faults? What is causing them and what will fix them? Are any particular muscles showing lack of development? If so, target them with specific exercises. Since the additional lifts are directly related to your main lifts, you're already working the involved muscles. You're just adding a little extra on top so there's no need to blast them into oblivion with drop sets and all that.

I believe the definitions of lifts used here are SPP and GPP where the former refers to competition lifts and their variants while the latter refers to the additional lifts.

Bench Polkov

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2014, 04:53:55 AM »
I posted about program customisation on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/20q7nt/sheiko_program_building_and_customisation/

I believe these were translations or interpretations of information from Boris's first book although I may be wrong.

Robert Frederick

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Re: 3 Day Program
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2014, 06:28:14 AM »
I posted about program customisation on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/20q7nt/sheiko_program_building_and_customisation/

I believe these were translations or interpretations of information from Boris's first book although I may be wrong.


That looks good. It would probably make a good tread, especially if we got into how one supplementary lift fixed a specific problem for example.