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Author Topic: RPE sets on Sheiko  (Read 3342 times)

Arteam90

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RPE sets on Sheiko
« on: June 20, 2017, 12:01:27 AM »
What RPE do you tend to hit on Sheiko and do our ever go 9+ RPE on any sets other than 100%+ sets?

Curious how Sheiko compares to some other programs in the sense of "difficulty" per set.

RussianBear

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 12:20:35 PM »
What RPE do you tend to hit on Sheiko and do our ever go 9+ RPE on any sets other than 100%+ sets?

Curious how Sheiko compares to some other programs in the sense of "difficulty" per set.

I am quoting Robert Frederik here:

"Reps in Reserve (RIR)
How hard should your training be? Generally, your first working set should not feel like you could have done more than four additional reps (RIR > 4). If you are in a preparatory period when this happens, add a little extra weight to increase the difficulty of the next sets. But do not increase the weight so much that you reach failure at any point in the remaining sets (RIR < 1). Only adjust the weight, not the number of reps or sets.
If you are in a competition period, make no adjustments to the weight, reps, or sets.
"

Also this may shed a bit of light on RPE in sheiko (which is, in my opinion, a really good description of the its usefulness) :

For me RPE is just a tool I use to make adjustments in loading or volume based on how I'm going- as coach Sheiko recommended while coaching me. What I mean by this is that he always said adjust loading up to 5% unless there was a need to limit things to load as written (such as in deload). Once you've run a few programs you know what 80% feels like and you understand how fatigue changes this. So you have an idea of how things should feel and move- and coach says you can make these small adjustments in response to fatigue levels/difficulty. So rpe can be used to hit approximate difficulty but the written program is the ultimate guide- rpe only comes in as an approximation for the purposes of adjustment.
"For one to press a lot, one must press a lot, comrade."

Arteam90

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 06:33:18 PM »
So it seems at most you'd go to RPE9 but most sets between 6-8RPE?

Interesting to see how that compares to other programs which have you often going near RPE9. I suppose they can do that without going too heavy via higher rep sets whilst sheiko doesn't really have that.

RussianBear

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 07:12:09 PM »
So it seems at most you'd go to RPE9 but most sets between 6-8RPE?

So, from a personal stand point I think it is a very flawed metric because it is highly subjective.
Other problems include that a x RPE may feel different during a training. I.e. feel different in prep cycle and in comp. cycle due to fatigue of the athlete.

Boris/soviet research have found that maximum strength increases happens at around 68-72 average intensity. If you are interested more in this, just read the forum.

With the introduction of RIR you can better tie RPE and sheiko together if u want to make that connection.


Interesting to see how that compares to other programs which have you often going near RPE9. I suppose they can do that without going too heavy via higher rep sets whilst sheiko doesn't really have that.

I have trouble understanding what you mean by this section of text. If you mean other programs can have you go near RPE 9 through higher rep sets, then yes Sheiko doesn't have that much in it. If you are going close to RPE 9 in a sheiko it would more often be on a high % than not.

BUT!
During ragged methods you may be doing 8's or 9's on 70% of 1RM, and depending on the lifters conditioning it can be a high RPE too.

I hope this sheds some light on your questions.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:25:09 PM by RussianBear »
"For one to press a lot, one must press a lot, comrade."

Arteam90

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 11:36:11 PM »
Very useful, thank you for your responses.

I just meant that it was interesting in that Sheiko tends to have you do fewer "difficult" sets (lower RPE) than some other programs. Obviously Sheiko itself is not easy, but the difficulty doesn't come from tough sets per se.

I was curious just in terms of my own programming and incorporating sheiko principles. And understanding how difficult those sets should be as per RPE.

68-72% can be the optimal avg intensity but that could be of varying difficulty in sets which I'd gather would elicit different responses ie RPE 7 sets at that range or RPE 9 sets at that range.

RussianBear

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 11:00:39 AM »
I was curious just in terms of my own programming and incorporating sheiko principles. And understanding how difficult those sets should be as per RPE.


I think it is very good that one are open for other training system and learn insights from them. I think that are many more important factors than "difficulty" per set that makes the Sheiko system so successful as it is.

68-72% can be the optimal avg intensity but that could be of varying difficulty in sets which I'd gather would elicit different responses ie RPE 7 sets at that range or RPE 9 sets at that range.


Yes, that is of course true and it can very different from workout to workout.
If you take of the RPE glasses for a moment; try look at this and see how different a workout can be build but having approx the same avg. relative intensities.

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=6.0
"For one to press a lot, one must press a lot, comrade."

bennyboi

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 03:49:14 PM »
So it seems at most you'd go to RPE9 but most sets between 6-8RPE?

Interesting to see how that compares to other programs which have you often going near RPE9. I suppose they can do that without going too heavy via higher rep sets whilst sheiko doesn't really have that.

If you look at the original RTS manual, the old RPEs have an @8 = 2-4 reps. And if you look at Mike's recommendations for 'volume' phases, triples and doubles are done at an RPE of @8-9. You would reach 1 RIR with either repeats or load drops. Sheiko and RTS are pretty similar when RIR and reps are concerned. As a matter of fact, your Average Relative Intensity will fall in the same lines for ~70% if you stick to the principles. Both methods are excellent and both require a different kind of mental attitude.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 03:52:47 PM by bennyboi »

Robert Frederick

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 04:54:31 PM »
Check out this article.
http://sheiko-program.ru/the-basics-of-sheiko-by-robert-frederick

The reason why you don't do too much work around RPE 9 is because it's almost a certainty that you're doing reps with broken form at that level of effort. You can do that once in a while but you really should keep that to a minimum. You want to do the bulk of your work just under the point where your form starts to break.

Arteam90

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2017, 12:37:51 AM »
Check out this article.
http://sheiko-program.ru/the-basics-of-sheiko-by-robert-frederick

The reason why you don't do too much work around RPE 9 is because it's almost a certainty that you're doing reps with broken form at that level of effort. You can do that once in a while but you really should keep that to a minimum. You want to do the bulk of your work just under the point where your form starts to break.

Thank you Robert.

That makes sense and as I understood it. So would you say for the most part the toughest sets (other than 100%+ sets) you do are 7-8 RPE? With of course some even easier as you work up to the heavier sets of that day.

Robert Frederick

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Re: RPE sets on Sheiko
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2017, 05:28:36 AM »
Work is done from between 4 and 1 RIR. More than 4 is a part of the warm up. Your first working set might feel a bit easy but by the time you get to the last one your RIR has probably come down a little. So you could have started with 3-4 RIR and finished at 1-2 RIR. When you do get to working sets that begin at 1-2 RIR (like 90%) you'll probably only do a partial range of motion or use a slingshot.

So that translates into a good portion of the work being done at 7-8 RPE.