Sheiko Forum

General Powerlifting => Biomechanics => Topic started by: ZR on November 14, 2014, 10:39:32 PM

Title: Barbell path tracking
Post by: ZR on November 14, 2014, 10:39:32 PM
I found this app to be really helpful in immediate analysis/feedback on barpath - http://blog.barsense.com/. (http://blog.barsense.com/.) They have an Android and an iOS version. It's very light weight and simple to use. I used it for bench analysis to make sure that I was bringing the bar back towards the shoulders on the press. I didn't write the app nor have anything to gain from promoting it. It's not a spam and would recommend to anyone to check it out.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 15, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
Looks nice. Only Android now though.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: ZR on November 15, 2014, 07:27:46 PM
Looks like you are right :( Sorry about that. I use the Android version. It's really good in the absence of a training couch/partner who can point out your mistakes and really great in seeing in speed work is actually "speedy" or you just think so.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Chreiz on November 16, 2014, 02:57:41 AM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 16, 2014, 07:42:59 PM
Looks like you are right :( Sorry about that. I use the Android version. It's really good in the absence of a training couch/partner who can point out your mistakes and really great in seeing in speed work is actually "speedy" or you just think so.

The velocities in the screenshots didn't look right to me. What range of velocities are you getting for say 80% bench presses? You should see a drop off from the first rep to the last.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: ZR on November 18, 2014, 12:46:47 AM
I haven't tried it with bench yet. I am going to tonight and I'll update you with my results.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: SUBZ on November 18, 2014, 07:03:38 PM
Yeah, I have been using barsene for some time now. I think it's a good app, but too bad, that it dosn't sync with my tablet. That would have been very nice :)
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 20, 2014, 02:43:12 PM
Tell me about the perfect version of this app and I'll make it happen. I've been using videos imported into Kinovea then exporting the data to Excel. It works but it's not too much fun to do. So I've been wanting to make the process a bit more user friendly for a while now.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: DRY on November 25, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
Tell me about the perfect version of this app and I'll make it happen. I've been using videos imported into Kinovea then exporting the data to Excel. It works but it's not too much fun to do. So I've been wanting to make the process a bit more user friendly for a while now.

I think that Kinovea or Tracker is the best for this.  I work in biomechanics though so perhaps what I consider to be user friendly and what most lifters consider is very different.  I don't even know where to find Tracker anymore. Kinovea though takes barely any time and gives (relatively) a ton of data
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Chreiz on November 25, 2014, 06:34:27 PM
Tried the app yesterday with squatting on the android device of a friend. Seemed to work quite well.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 26, 2014, 10:11:58 AM
Tell me about the perfect version of this app and I'll make it happen. I've been using videos imported into Kinovea then exporting the data to Excel. It works but it's not too much fun to do. So I've been wanting to make the process a bit more user friendly for a while now.

I think that Kinovea or Tracker is the best for this.  I work in biomechanics though so perhaps what I consider to be user friendly and what most lifters consider is very different.  I don't even know where to find Tracker anymore. Kinovea though takes barely any time and gives (relatively) a ton of data

Want to post some stuff? It would be interesting to see what someone who does this professionally can do with it.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: DRY on November 27, 2014, 05:52:49 PM
Tell me about the perfect version of this app and I'll make it happen. I've been using videos imported into Kinovea then exporting the data to Excel. It works but it's not too much fun to do. So I've been wanting to make the process a bit more user friendly for a while now.


I think that Kinovea or Tracker is the best for this.  I work in biomechanics though so perhaps what I consider to be user friendly and what most lifters consider is very different.  I don't even know where to find Tracker anymore. Kinovea though takes barely any time and gives (relatively) a ton of data


Want to post some stuff? It would be interesting to see what someone who does this professionally can do with it.


I don't do this sort of thing professionally.  I do health things not strength :( .  This is similar the systems that we mostly use

http://youtu.be/2uDnW4AtFiE?t=45s (http://youtu.be/2uDnW4AtFiE?t=45s)

As for my own lifting, I don't think I do anything that anyone else doesn't do, but I can do it very fast :)

Usually I'll do bar path tracking, and add a stop watch.  I do not worry about bar velocity so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1z85HEzbzg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1z85HEzbzg#ws)

I sometimes add extra lines or grids to add to the information from the bar path's accessibility.  Like a bar path can be almost straight up and down but if it starts and ends over your toes it is still bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732EG3LYFOs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732EG3LYFOs#)

It only takes 5 minutes but it can show (especially a novice lifter) very quickly what is wrong like my friend here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs#ws)
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 28, 2014, 06:11:39 AM
I found bar velocity transformed into acceleration and force to be interesting the first time I saw it. Upward force greatly exceeded downward force around the point of bar reversal. Just a short distance away from that point downward force exceeded upward force, yet the bar continued moving upwards. The bar velocity slows until a point where upward force again exceeds downward force. From that it was pretty clear exactly where some extra force capacity would be useful.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: Boris Sheiko on November 28, 2014, 10:17:33 AM
It only takes 5 minutes but it can show (especially a novice lifter) very quickly what is wrong like my friend here:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs#ws[/url])


I see this is a very common problem. We have a standard approach to correcting it. You can see the hips rise up faster after the sticking point. This redistributes load from the legs to the back and occurs because of weak leg muscles. I usually recommend to my students to do pin squats at 40-60% of the squat result where the pin is set to position the bar slightly lower than where it reaches at full depth. In addition, squats with a 1s pause at the weak point on the way up are also prescribed. These two special exercises can help fix the problem.
Title: Re: Barbell path tracking
Post by: DRY on November 28, 2014, 07:49:52 PM
It only takes 5 minutes but it can show (especially a novice lifter) very quickly what is wrong like my friend here:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN4RxStlpWs#ws[/url])


I see this is a very common problem. We have a standard approach to correcting it. You can see the hips rise up faster after the sticking point. This redistributes load from the legs to the back and occurs because of weak leg muscles. I usually recommend to my students to do pin squats at 40-60% of the squat result where the pin is set to position the bar slightly lower than where it reaches at full depth. In addition, squats with a 1s pause at the weak point on the way up are also prescribed. These two special exercises can help fix the problem.

Coach Sheiko, my friend will be very exited to hear your feedback. Thank you for this