Sheiko Forum

General Powerlifting => CMS, MS, & MSIC (4-day programs) => Topic started by: Robert Frederick on July 11, 2014, 01:15:20 PM

Title: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 11, 2014, 01:15:20 PM
Boris has just finished modernizing the 4 day program found online in the old spreadsheets and the new one looks like a lot of fun!

Previously it was listed as appropriate for CMS/MS class lifters. That is no longer the case. The 4 day now applies to Class 1 and CMS. See more info here. (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=311.0)

It consists of 20 weeks broken into four blocks: adaptation, accumulation, transmutation, and realization. When he created this new program he added front squats to the first month as a corrective exercise for a very common problem he's seeing lately: leaning forward in the squat. Similarly, the rest of the program fits the typical lifter's profile so modifications may be needed in your case. See more info here. (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=12.0)

iOS app: All programs, progress tracking, bar path analysis, workout notes and video demos (https://goo.gl/WMeKjY)

Android app: All programs, progress tracking, workout notes and video demos (https://goo.gl/yVfxpn)

This program comes in only one flavor unlike the three day program. Why? Because it gets less and less productive to create universal programs as the class of the lifter rises. So take this one as the base and make it work for you.

There is one deadlift special exercise you may not be familiar with. It's called the 1 1/2 deadlift here. Basically you lift the barbell up then lower it to your knees then bring it back up again. Sometimes you lower it to the knees twice (1 + 2) and sometimes only once (1 + 1).

(http://i.imgur.com/QXMkePd.png)

Special thanks to FreakGoHome (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=71) for coming up with a way for the intensity zone charts to update automatically when you make changes to individual exercises. Modifying the program (which you should do as needed) is now a bit easier.





Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Martinax on July 11, 2014, 01:55:46 PM
Sweet
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: bvictor on July 11, 2014, 04:09:15 PM
When he created this new program he added front squats to the first month as a corrective exercise for a very common problem he's seeing lately: leaning forward in the squat.

This is mainly a problem for closer stance, high bar style squats, correct?  I feel like I have to lean over a bit with my wider stance, low bar technique.  Or is it more referring to the upper back losing tightness during the lift?

Thanks so much for posting this new 4 day program.  Its good to see that more 4 day options are becoming available.  I always worried that I was splitting up the volume incorrectly when trying to divide up a 3 day program to a 4 day split.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 11, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
This is mainly a problem for closer stance, high bar style squats, correct?  I feel like I have to lean over a bit with my wider stance, low bar technique.  Or is it more referring to the upper back losing tightness during the lift?

This is for low bar and it's to fix your back angle changing excessively during the lift.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on July 11, 2014, 04:32:11 PM
Looks like a holiday to me :P
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: BuccioniPL on July 11, 2014, 04:55:11 PM
Looks like a holiday to me :P

And a hell for me...!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: BuccioniPL on July 11, 2014, 04:55:44 PM
This is mainly a problem for closer stance, high bar style squats, correct?  I feel like I have to lean over a bit with my wider stance, low bar technique.  Or is it more referring to the upper back losing tightness during the lift?

This is for low bar and it's to fix your back angle changing excessively during the lift.

I guess paused squat as well is for getting more stability to avoid leaning forward
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 11, 2014, 05:33:42 PM
I guess paused squat as well is for getting more stability to avoid leaning forward

Yeah, I agree. I forgot that was in there too.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dimitris on July 11, 2014, 05:42:20 PM
A clarification please: in bench (or deadlift) w/ chains the weight percentage includes the weight of the chains and in bench (or deadlift) w/ chains plus the weight it doesn't, right?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Chreiz on July 11, 2014, 05:53:25 PM
Looks very interesting.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 11, 2014, 06:49:34 PM
A clarification please: in bench (or deadlift) w/ chains the weight percentage includes the weight of the chains and in bench (or deadlift) w/ chains plus the weight it doesn't, right?

Load up the bar with the weight given in the spreadsheet then add the chains on top of that weight. One or two links on the ground in the top position and the extra weight off in the bottom position. This way the extra tension is precisely controlled.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: hurril on July 12, 2014, 03:15:46 AM
I would like to know a little more about this guy:

"Squat w/pause at half squat position on the way down"

What is its aim?

What would you say would be the main difference in how a sumo vs a regular deadlifter would apply your programs? Sumo all the time? I know this is a generic program and in reality, that would be a matter of what a given lifter's weaknesses are. But anyway =)

Lastly: what board height is the one in mind for the percentages given in the program?

Thank you very much for putting in so much time with this. There's a so much to pick up here!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: mfw on July 12, 2014, 07:18:37 AM
I train in my garage so I only have a squat rack, flat bench, barbell, bands, blocks, and a dip and chin up station.  Is this program going to be impossible for me to do since a lot of the supplementary exercises require stuff I dont have?  For chest muscles I could do flys w/ bands but I can't figure out what would replace leg press, hyper, or incline bench
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: joshuadelapenha on July 12, 2014, 08:27:15 AM
I am assuming this is the the universal program i have heard about a few months ago.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: devilyenko on July 12, 2014, 08:34:07 AM
I have two questions for either robert or the master coach:

1. Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of having 2 skills test weeks? Especially one during the last prep cycle.

2. If changing exercises to fit one's need, should we maintain the volume (NL) and decrease intensity (%max) or  maintain intensity and adjust volume?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: joshuadelapenha on July 12, 2014, 08:55:34 AM
I have two questions for either robert or the master coach:

1. Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of having 2 skills test weeks? Especially one during the last prep cycle.

2. If changing exercises to fit one's need, should we maintain the volume (NL) and decrease intensity (%max) or  maintain intensity and adjust volume?

Where are there 2 skills test? I only see one during the first week of #32.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Tyrwing on July 12, 2014, 11:33:46 AM
Just for clarification, because I am stupid.

1 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift

You start at the ground, lift to lockout, lower back to knees, then you lockout again and finally lower back to the ground. This is one rep correct?

1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating

You do one regular deadlift, then you do one of the above (ground-lockout-knees-lockout-ground), then one regular, then one fo the special kind?

What does the (x2) mean?

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 01:48:00 PM
Just for clarification, because I am stupid.

1 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift

You start at the ground, lift to lockout, lower back to knees, then you lockout again and finally lower back to the ground. This is one rep correct?

1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating

You do one regular deadlift, then you do one of the above (ground-lockout-knees-lockout-ground), then one regular, then one fo the special kind?

What does the (x2) mean?

I wasn't sure how to write these. I'm open to better ideas.

1 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift

Ground to lockout -> Lockout to knees -> knees to lockout -> lockout to knees -> knees to lockout

That's one full rep and two half reps for a total of three reps. That's why I called it 1 + 1/2 (x2).


1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating

This is one full then one half. Repeat from the ground. The total here is four reps.

The x2 means times 2.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 01:49:02 PM
I am assuming this is the the universal program i have heard about a few months ago.

No. This is a brand new program.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 01:58:30 PM
I have two questions for either robert or the master coach:

1. Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of having 2 skills test weeks? Especially one during the last prep cycle.

2. If changing exercises to fit one's need, should we maintain the volume (NL) and decrease intensity (%max) or  maintain intensity and adjust volume?

The first one during prep #3 is used to adjust your weights up for the remainder of the program. The last one is during the comp cycle and that's to get ready for competition.

If you're changing the second bench to a close grip bench for example, you'd need to adjust the intensity too. Volume changes could go either way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 01:59:12 PM
I have two questions for either robert or the master coach:

1. Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of having 2 skills test weeks? Especially one during the last prep cycle.

2. If changing exercises to fit one's need, should we maintain the volume (NL) and decrease intensity (%max) or  maintain intensity and adjust volume?

Where are there 2 skills test? I only see one during the first week of #32.

You're looking at the 3 day. This is the 4 day thread.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 02:04:52 PM
I train in my garage so I only have a squat rack, flat bench, barbell, bands, blocks, and a dip and chin up station.  Is this program going to be impossible for me to do since a lot of the supplementary exercises require stuff I dont have?  For chest muscles I could do flys w/ bands but I can't figure out what would replace leg press, hyper, or incline bench

Leg Press -> High Step-Up

Hypers -> Good Morning

Incline Bench -> Feet Elevated Push Ups (w/plate across your back)

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 12, 2014, 02:15:38 PM
I would like to know a little more about this guy:

"Squat w/pause at half squat position on the way down"

What is its aim?

What would you say would be the main difference in how a sumo vs a regular deadlifter would apply your programs? Sumo all the time? I know this is a generic program and in reality, that would be a matter of what a given lifter's weaknesses are. But anyway =)

Lastly: what board height is the one in mind for the percentages given in the program?

Thank you very much for putting in so much time with this. There's a so much to pick up here!

In a nutshell it's to help with form. The paused squat in the middle makes it really easy to check your form. The half way point is a landmark and you should be in a particular setup position when you get there. It would also be hard to maintain the paused position if the barbell had traveled away from the plane over the middle of your feet.

The exercises here for the deadlift apply to either sumo or conventional since people have similar problems with both: hips are too high and the pull is done mostly by the back muscles.

The board thickness is usually around 7-8cm the times I've seen it used.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: hurril on July 12, 2014, 03:58:58 PM
Thank you very much! :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on July 12, 2014, 04:06:13 PM
I only got 14-15 weeks untill the Dutch RAW Championships after my vacation. Too bad, cause this looks like a lot of fun. I'll guess I will give it a go after the Championships. I have to move up from the -83 to the -93 kilo bw during that period, so 2 evaluations seems like a great thing in that case (since the weights will also move up due to the added bw).
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: CinghialePL on July 13, 2014, 03:24:47 PM
a question regarding this program of 20 weeks: in the second week of the period of Transmutation the 100-105% of deadlift is written deadlift up to knees .... is it possible or is there an error?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: hurril on July 13, 2014, 04:24:45 PM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 13, 2014, 05:25:28 PM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)

It's an incline bench press. But he doesn't like to count it as a bench press.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: CinghialePL on July 13, 2014, 06:46:22 PM
Robert, a question regarding this program of 20 weeks: in the second week of the period of Transmutation the 100-105% of deadlift is written deadlift up to knees .... is it possible or is there an mistake? Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 13, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
Robert, a question regarding this program of 20 weeks: in the second week of the period of Transmutation the 100-105% of deadlift is written deadlift up to knees .... is it possible or is there an mistake? Thanks.

Yes, you're right. That should be your competition deadlift not a special exercise. Good eye.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: lanidrac on July 13, 2014, 08:49:43 PM
I am new to Sheiko programming and want to give this a shot. I also have a few questions regarding this program.

1. What are the typical recommended rest times between sets?

2. Which exercises should I select for assistance when it says lats, delts, chest etc and do you just progressively overload after completion of all reps? (ex. add 5 lbs after I can complete all sets and reps)

3. I don't always have access to board and chains since I train at 2 different gyms. What are some substitute exercises for board presses, bench + chains and deadlift + chains?

4. During the half pause squat how long of a pause should this be? Do you drop into the hole after the pause and then back up or just up from the half position?

Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: hurril on July 14, 2014, 05:03:45 AM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)

It's an incline bench press. But he doesn't like to count it as a bench press.

I figured as much. How come he does not want to count it towards the bench press totals? I vaguely recall board presses being excluded in one or another of his bench press articles as well.

I'm not doubting the validity or suitability of such a method of counting, I'm just curious. Really, I'm totally fine with: Just Because.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: mfw on July 14, 2014, 09:55:47 AM

1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating

This is one full then one half. Repeat from the ground. The total here is four reps.

The x2 means times 2.

So when it says to do 3 reps, you do this 3 times? 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 14, 2014, 11:49:18 AM
I am new to Sheiko programming and want to give this a shot. I also have a few questions regarding this program.

1. What are the typical recommended rest times between sets?

2. Which exercises should I select for assistance when it says lats, delts, chest etc and do you just progressively overload after completion of all reps? (ex. add 5 lbs after I can complete all sets and reps)

3. I don't always have access to board and chains since I train at 2 different gyms. What are some substitute exercises for board presses, bench + chains and deadlift + chains?

4. During the half pause squat how long of a pause should this be? Do you drop into the hole after the pause and then back up or just up from the half position?

Thanks for the clarification.

1. I haven't seen (in my limited experience) Boris place much emphasis on rest times. Personally I like to over complicate stuff and I wait until my heart rate drops down to 50% of max which is about 90 bpm for me.

2. I used to fill those slots in with specific exercises but now I just get a feel for it right then and there in the gym what needs to be done. For example, when it says "Lat Muscles" I sometimes do t-bar rows, Pendlay rows, pull ups, or chin ups. I won't know which one I'll do until after I finish my last set of the previous exercise. Also, about the loading of those, I think it works better as an intermediate to load those more aggressively. As a more advanced lifter I think taking it easier on those and using them more for aiding recovery works better.

3. If you have a power rack you can set the safety bars a few inches off your chest to simulate a board. I'm not really sure about a substitute for chains though. I have my own and bring them with me ($60 for 20kg).

4. Full stop for one second is ok. Then drop down and back up again.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 14, 2014, 11:53:03 AM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)

It's an incline bench press. But he doesn't like to count it as a bench press.

I figured as much. How come he does not want to count it towards the bench press totals? I vaguely recall board presses being excluded in one or another of his bench press articles as well.

I'm not doubting the validity or suitability of such a method of counting, I'm just curious. Really, I'm totally fine with: Just Because.

Don't know. It came up before but I didn't want to press him on it. It seems like "just because" to me but that's not his style. There's probably a good reason.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on July 14, 2014, 12:06:53 PM

1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating

This is one full then one half. Repeat from the ground. The total here is four reps.

The x2 means times 2.


So when it says to do 3 reps, you do this 3 times?


No, 1 + 1/2 (x2) is 3 reps total. 1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) is 4 reps. In the cells below where you see those names the text is set to match the background color. Highlight those cells and change the text to black.

(http://i.imgur.com/cGNIVf9.png)

The names of the exercise must be in each cell in order for the calculations to work. But that is a mess to look at so I hid the text. For this deadlift variation though I shouldn't have hidden the text since they are not all the same.

Good question. The sets at 70% and 80% don't need the "alternating" descriptor either.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Chreiz on July 14, 2014, 12:35:23 PM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)

I'm pretty sure the incline shoulder press means a seated shoulder press with a slight incline (say about 60-70 degrees) compared to the 'standard' incline bench press which uses angles of around 30 degrees.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: mfw on July 14, 2014, 03:38:48 PM
Thank you Robert, very helpful.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Taedoju on July 17, 2014, 05:33:52 PM
Can bands replace Chains?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: BuccioniPL on July 17, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
Can bands replace Chains?
Yes they can. It is what I'm doing since several months. I do not have chains and I set up bands to have similar amount of weight at the top.

Assuming to set up them propertly, it must be said that there are also some remarkable differences: the force function (f(x)) cannot be the same; moreover bands provide you a sort of guide along the ROM, whereas chains do not.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Chreiz on July 17, 2014, 06:38:57 PM
Personally I find them a bit harder on my tendons/ligaments in comparison with chains.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Taedoju on July 17, 2014, 08:11:38 PM
I own only bands... I thought about. Stepping on them to anchor
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 06, 2014, 01:23:45 AM
Is there anyway to make the 4 day program work only on weekdays ? I can't train on weekends due to work but hoping there's a way around it , if not I'll go back to #37 3 days. 

Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on August 06, 2014, 09:43:28 AM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Taedoju on August 06, 2014, 03:21:28 PM
i do it that way...one question, is it possible to include some cardio/gpp work into program? when it is the best time to do it? first two prep periods? I do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri so saturday ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 06, 2014, 04:51:32 PM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.

Thanks , I will give it a try.

One more question , is each prep cycle to be done 1,2,3 ,4 or can you pick one and stay on it until you do the comp cycle ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: ado gruzza on August 06, 2014, 06:05:53 PM
JJ is a 20 week plan, organized to be done in this way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 06, 2014, 08:25:53 PM
JJ is a 20 week plan, organized to be done in this way.

I see , thanks for clarification , I'll need to start front squatting ASAP lol
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on August 07, 2014, 12:36:00 PM
Could board presses be switched around for pin presses? Or are they too taxing? I train in a gym full of people that even have a hard time understanding something a simple as spotting, explaining how to hold the board seems like mission impossible to me.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 07, 2014, 06:25:12 PM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.

Having looked at it again , if it was mon/tue/thu/fri

It would be ok to bench two days in a row ? For instance on the Monday and Tuesday ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 07, 2014, 07:29:22 PM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.

Having looked at it again , if it was mon/tue/thu/fri

It would be ok to bench two days in a row ? For instance on the Monday and Tuesday ?

Change the bench on one of those days to lat work.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 07, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.

Having looked at it again , if it was mon/tue/thu/fri

It would be ok to bench two days in a row ? For instance on the Monday and Tuesday ?

Change the bench on one of those days to lat work.

Excellent , thanks , I'm starting it a week on Monday so I'll start a log then :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 08, 2014, 06:42:12 AM
Could board presses be switched around for pin presses? Or are they too taxing? I train in a gym full of people that even have a hard time understanding something a simple as spotting, explaining how to hold the board seems like mission impossible to me.

Yeah, you could do that. If you're starting from the bottom though you'd need to adjust the percentages. If you're starting from the top and bringing it down to pins you could use the same percentages. The latter option would be closer to a board press.

For me though I don't like board presses. I feel like they mess up my technique. I think you get two things out of doing them: 1) heavier weight in the second half of the concentric portion and 2) maximum force development a few inches higher off the chest than normal.

Normally you generate the most force when you reverse the direction the barbell is traveling, slightly less if you pause the bar first. In a bench press then maximum force occurs at chest height. Then the bar travels upwards a little but and force drops off. Using the board raises the height of reversal and so forces you to generate maximum force at a height force output usually falls off. Then you also get to use a little extra weight as well.

Since I feel like the board press interferes with my technique (my left shoulder is very sensitive to technique screw ups so I can't have that) but I still want the benefits of the board press I use chains (at 80% instead of 75%, 10kg each side) more frequently. For generating increased force at a different height I will pause the bar a few inches off my chest on the way up. I haven't tried combining these two (chains with a pause) yet but it sounds interesting.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on August 08, 2014, 12:24:46 PM
Could board presses be switched around for pin presses? Or are they too taxing? I train in a gym full of people that even have a hard time understanding something a simple as spotting, explaining how to hold the board seems like mission impossible to me.

Yeah, you could do that. If you're starting from the bottom though you'd need to adjust the percentages. If you're starting from the top and bringing it down to pins you could use the same percentages. The latter option would be closer to a board press.

For me though I don't like board presses. I feel like they mess up my technique. I think you get two things out of doing them: 1) heavier weight in the second half of the concentric portion and 2) maximum force development a few inches higher off the chest than normal.

Normally you generate the most force when you reverse the direction the barbell is traveling, slightly less if you pause the bar first. In a bench press then maximum force occurs at chest height. Then the bar travels upwards a little but and force drops off. Using the board raises the height of reversal and so forces you to generate maximum force at a height force output usually falls off. Then you also get to use a little extra weight as well.

Since I feel like the board press interferes with my technique (my left shoulder is very sensitive to technique screw ups so I can't have that) but I still want the benefits of the board press I use chains (at 80% instead of 75%, 10kg each side) more frequently. For generating increased force at a different height I will pause the bar a few inches off my chest on the way up. I haven't tried combining these two (chains with a pause) yet but it sounds interesting.

Thank you. I will give it a run with the pin presses starting from a lockout position. I saw that chains occur several times in the general 4 day lay out as well, so i most definetly will use them.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Taedoju on August 09, 2014, 02:35:07 AM
any of you add some basic cardiovascular activites to the program ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 09, 2014, 01:31:39 PM
You could do Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri if you had to.

Thanks , I will give it a try.

One more question , is each prep cycle to be done 1,2,3 ,4 or can you pick one and stay on it until you do the comp cycle ?

Hi, do you put in a lat exercise in one of the bench days and remove bench? or move the days around?

im still trying to set mine up but keep overlapping.

as for cardio im going to do some walking on the Wednesday and that's it but I guess its personal preference.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 09, 2014, 01:57:22 PM
Yeah, you can take one of the bench sessions out and replace it. So for example, replace the bench stuff on Tue with lat work.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: JJ on August 09, 2014, 02:21:03 PM
ok , got you now, thanks again.  :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uncLez on August 11, 2014, 04:40:46 PM
Hi all,

new to the forum here.

I've been recovering from a knee injury for quite some time now and finally did some 3-day Sheiko cycles this summer which the knee survived. I feel confident enough to start progressing to the 4-day program and start preparations for the next classic competition in December, but I have a (probably) silly question.

In the first Prep period there is mention of squat w/pause at half-squat position, but when do you pause?
On the way down? Or up? Or both?  ;D

Thanx in advance,
Anton.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 11, 2014, 08:35:25 PM
Pause on the way down.

You can slide the column over in the spreadsheet to reveal the full text btw.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uncLez on August 12, 2014, 10:21:18 AM
Arf, can't believe I missed that.

Thanx for the reply!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: p1yrmtt on August 16, 2014, 02:03:54 AM
Hi all,

Am i able to just follow the deadlift & squat routine in this program? i will be swapping out bench day for military press but using a different program. Last question, if i can't get any chains for deadlifting, what should i do to replace 'Deadlifting with chains'?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: reddead on August 20, 2014, 09:14:01 AM
Hello.

I have just finished the 3 day cycle for under 80kg lifters and have improved my personal bests to a 175kg squat, 115kg bench press and a 185kg deadlift. I handled the volume very easily and I think I am ready for more so I will be doing the 4 day program now.

A few questions:

My gym does not have access to chains or a board for the benchpress. Would should I use instead? Add 5% to the bench press intensities?

Also, 20 weeks seems like a very long time to go without attempting to achieve a personal record. Is that really the intention of the program? That is 5 months without accounting for any possible strength increases due to adaptation. It just seems like a long time. My total is nearly CMS and I found the 3day program too easy but I believe that I can achieve a new result sooner than 20 weeks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Maxmatical on August 21, 2014, 01:52:21 AM
I have no access to chains/bands or blocks, how should I modify this program, or should I run one of the CMS-MS prep/competition cycles?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on August 21, 2014, 09:34:40 AM
If you don't have access to chains then I would replace them with deadlifts paused at the knee.

Blocks are easy to replicate with stacked plates.

You can do board press with anything raised off the chest. I have used a foam block tucked under my shirt before. Or bring in a small block of wood and attach it to your chest with a belt. There are also blocks that you can attach to the bar or your chest that are available from www.liftinglarge.com (http://www.liftinglarge.com) and other powerlifting supply stores.

On long cycles I occasionally push heavier doubles or singles for curiosity sakes to see how my strength is progressing but I do not do it often and never go to failure.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Nasus on August 22, 2014, 02:41:51 AM
If you don't have access to chains then I would replace them with deadlifts paused at the knee.

Would i lock out after the pause?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Maxmatical on August 22, 2014, 04:50:57 AM
If you don't have access to chains then I would replace them with deadlifts paused at the knee.

Blocks are easy to replicate with stacked plates.

You can do board press with anything raised off the chest. I have used a foam block tucked under my shirt before. Or bring in a small block of wood and attach it to your chest with a belt. There are also blocks that you can attach to the bar or your chest that are available from [url=http://www.liftinglarge.com]www.liftinglarge.com[/url] ([url]http://www.liftinglarge.com[/url]) and other powerlifting supply stores.



I can definitely try these options, but i don't know if i'm able to do what you suggested as well, so assuming worst scenario where the alternatives you suggested aren't available, what can i do?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 22, 2014, 09:35:55 AM
I can definitely try these options, but i don't know if i'm able to do what you suggested as well, so assuming worst scenario where the alternatives you suggested aren't available, what can i do?

How would you not be able to do those? I must not understand your question completely.

If you can do deadlifts, you can do deadlifts and pause. If you have plates to put on the bar, you have plates to put under the bar as well. So you must be referring to the board press workarounds. I don't see how you couldn't do those either with a little bit of motivation. Take a 1L plastic water bottle and slide it under your shirt. Done.

Worst case? Do a competition bench or deadlift instead.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on August 22, 2014, 03:45:34 PM
If you don't have access to chains then I would replace them with deadlifts paused at the knee.

Would i lock out after the pause?

Yes. To not lockout would be a deadlift TO THE KNEE.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: DRY on August 22, 2014, 08:39:03 PM
Certain plates and gyms don't work out for blocks, but nothing else on that list requires anything special
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: FreakGoHome on August 25, 2014, 05:15:58 AM
What are the differences in approach between this 4 day program and the "Universal Appropriate Program" previously available from the sheiko-program main site?

A spreadsheet of the "Universal Appropriate Program" can be found here (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713).
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 25, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
What are the differences in approach between this 4 day program and the "Universal Appropriate Program" previously available from the sheiko-program main site?

A spreadsheet of the "Universal Appropriate Program" can be found here ([url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713[/url]).


Shorter prep period for the UAP and no squat form fix.

Some of the guys doing 3 day programs that want to do 4 instead but don't need 20 week cycles could benefit from that. The UAP also looks very generic, hence the "Universal" I guess. The new 4 day program includes the fix for the forward lean which is common in many people so that would make it a bit more specific in that regard.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Andybird on August 26, 2014, 04:19:36 PM
Sorry if this has been covered, but I read through the whole thread and couldn't spot anything.
I only have 15 weeks before my next planned competition. I'm assuming that, considering I just finished 13 weeks of Sheiko programming culminating in a meet just gone, that I would be fine to skip the first 5 week adaptation phase and just run the remaining 3 phases as per normal?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 26, 2014, 07:29:16 PM
Sorry if this has been covered, but I read through the whole thread and couldn't spot anything.
I only have 15 weeks before my next planned competition. I'm assuming that, considering I just finished 13 weeks of Sheiko programming culminating in a meet just gone, that I would be fine to skip the first 5 week adaptation phase and just run the remaining 3 phases as per normal?

Yeah, that'll work.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Sheiko37 on August 27, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
There's some good suggestions for everything needing extra equipment, except for bench press with chains, any idea for an alternative?

Can I also get some clarification of the difference between these lifts.

- deadlift up to knees
- deadlift up to knees w/ pause
- deadlift w/ pause 5-7cm above knees

Is the first one a deadlift to the knee then immediately down, the second one the same but with a pause, the third you pause at the knee then lock out?

There's another one too, 'deadlift w/chains off boxes, bar is 10-12cm below knees', what is the point of chains and boxes together?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 27, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
There's some good suggestions for everything needing extra equipment, except for bench press with chains, any idea for an alternative?

Can I also get some clarification of the difference between these lifts.

- deadlift up to knees
- deadlift up to knees w/ pause
- deadlift w/ pause 5-7cm above knees

Is the first one a deadlift to the knee then immediately down, the second one the same but with a pause, the third you pause at the knee then lock out?

There's another one too, 'deadlift w/chains off boxes, bar is 10-12cm below knees', what is the point of chains and boxes together?

Why not just buy some chains? I went down to my local hardware store and bought 20kg of chains for $60. I load them into a small gym bag and bring them with me. Problem solved.

- deadlift up to knees
- deadlift up to knees w/ pause
- deadlift w/ pause 5-7cm above knees

Is the first one a deadlift to the knee then immediately down? Yes, but a momentary pause.

The second one is the same but with a pause? Yes, very clear pause.

The third you pause at the knee then lock out? No, pause ABOVE the knees then resume pulling to lockout.

In the deadlift w/chains off boxes you begin with the bar at a common sticking point. You always need the greatest amount of force to get the bar moving from a dead stop. So with the bar at that height you practice developing strength right where you typically need it most. Add to that the chains and you have to keep increasing the force you generate to complete the movement.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dan on August 28, 2014, 05:59:44 AM
Great forum.  I apologize if this has been asked or explained.  Is this program geared any more towards a geared lifter vs a raw lifter?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 29, 2014, 11:27:56 AM
You can do it either way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on September 12, 2014, 06:56:16 AM
Hello.

I was wondering if I could get some advice regarding modifying this program.

I have 15 weeks until my next comp.

The program here is 20 weeks, so I have tried to take away 5 weeks. I have taken out the transmutation phase which is exactly 5 weeks. Is this decision okay in terms of results? Would this decision impact the results greatly?Would there be a better way to take away 5 weeks?  ???

I am currently in week 3 day 3 (tomorrow) of the adaptation phase, so there are 12 weeks until comp now. I was thinking the alternative is to jump to accumulation phase week 5, finish the remainder of that phase (2 weeks) then finish transmutation and comp (10 weeks, total of 12).

This is my first sheiko program. Before I started I had finished a competition.

Thank you so much for any advice.

From Hai. :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 12, 2014, 12:42:53 PM
Hello.

I was wondering if I could get some advice regarding modifying this program.

I have 15 weeks until my next comp.

The program here is 20 weeks, so I have tried to take away 5 weeks. I have taken out the transmutation phase which is exactly 5 weeks. Is this decision okay in terms of results? Would this decision impact the results greatly?Would there be a better way to take away 5 weeks?  ???

I am currently in week 3 day 3 (tomorrow) of the adaptation phase, so there are 12 weeks until comp now. I was thinking the alternative is to jump to accumulation phase week 5, finish the remainder of that phase (2 weeks) then finish transmutation and comp (10 weeks, total of 12).

This is my first sheiko program. Before I started I had finished a competition.

Thank you so much for any advice.

From Hai. :)

Count backwards. You have 12 weeks left. The last three should follow the comp taper off. That leaves you with 9 weeks left. Split that into an accumulation block where you focus on volume. Next, for the second half test your maxes in transmutation and hopefully up your training weights until starting the comp taper off. That's the general idea.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on September 12, 2014, 02:55:57 PM
Hello.

I was wondering if I could get some advice regarding modifying this program.

I have 15 weeks until my next comp.

The program here is 20 weeks, so I have tried to take away 5 weeks. I have taken out the transmutation phase which is exactly 5 weeks. Is this decision okay in terms of results? Would this decision impact the results greatly?Would there be a better way to take away 5 weeks?  ???

I am currently in week 3 day 3 (tomorrow) of the adaptation phase, so there are 12 weeks until comp now. I was thinking the alternative is to jump to accumulation phase week 5, finish the remainder of that phase (2 weeks) then finish transmutation and comp (10 weeks, total of 12).

This is my first sheiko program. Before I started I had finished a competition.

Thank you so much for any advice.

From Hai. :)

Count backwards. You have 12 weeks left. The last three should follow the comp taper off. That leaves you with 9 weeks left. Split that into an accumulation block where you focus on volume. Next, for the second half test your maxes in transmutation and hopefully up your training weights until starting the comp taper off. That's the general idea.

Thank you for the reply and advice!

I will try to do as you say and have a bit of everything in the remaining 13 weeks (I realized that there is 1 extra week)

In the comp prep there are MAXES attempts in week 2. You are, however, recommending to only do week 3,4 and 5 and to test my maxes during transmutation.

Transmutation max test, however, is in week 2, which leaves week 3,4, and 5 that I could possibly do. I am worried that if I do weeks 3,4, and/or 5 of transmutation followed by week 3,4, and 5 of the comp taper that my max test is too far away from the competition date (possibly 7 weeks from comp). Would you disagree?

Would you have a recommendation of how far away from comp date I would attempt my max (e.g., 4 weeks before comp, 21 days before comp)? That will help me choose which weeks to include or not.

This is the rough idea of what I thought I could do for the next 13 weeks. please let me know your thoughts if you have the time, and whether I might want to adjust a few weeks.

Week 1: Finish off Days 3,5, and 6 from Week 3 Adaptation.
Week 2 - 5: Do Weeks 3,4,5 and 6 of Accumulation.
Week 6-10: Do weeks 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 from Transmutation (MAX TEST IN WEEK 2, about 7 weeks away from comp)
Week 11-13: Do weeks 3, 4, and 5 (COMP WEEK) from Comp Taper

Thank you so much for your time. I understand it must be difficult to reply to these posts without me providing any incentive. So thank you for your help, I appreciate it a lot  :)

Thanks,

Hai.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on September 12, 2014, 03:21:01 PM
I guess the alternative might be to start in week 3 of accumulation and complete the rest of the program as is. That will give me 13 weeks as well.

So:

3, 4, 5 Accumulation

1-5 Transmutation

1-5 Comp.

This would give me at least some volume, also I skip week 6 because it is somewhat similar to week 1 of the transmutation phase in terms of average weight. So the transition will still be okay.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 14, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
The max tests before tapering should be done. You could drop the other max tests prior to that and just adjust the weight by feeling as you go. Hopefully you'll be able to add more after the accumulation block which is itself better the longer it is. Your last plan has you doing three weeks of accumulation. I'd lengthen that and shorten the others.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on September 14, 2014, 07:00:02 PM
Thanks for the reply.

Accumulation. How about week 3,4,5,6 accumulation plus week 1 transmutation or extra modified accumulation week 5/6. 5 week total.

Then transmutation 3,4,5 skipping week 2. Modify max weights based on feel instead. 3 weeks total.

Then entire comp phase. Week 1 seems important to properly prepare for week 2 max test, but I can omit if you believe it's not so important, and instead have one extra more accumulation week to make that phase 6 weeks.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 14, 2014, 08:29:08 PM
That looks like a plan. You could do the 3,4,5,6 then see how you feel for the last week when you get there. 3,4,5 and the full comp sounds good too.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on September 15, 2014, 03:08:34 AM
Awesome!!

Thank you so much for your guidance Robert! I'll let you know how it goes!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on September 15, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
I'm in sort of the same situation. I dropped the entire thirth block (transmutation) and week 6 of the second block (accumulation) in order to fit my agenda.

Is dropping the transmutation a really bad idea? I'm currently in week 3 from the adaption block, so i can still make adjustments. My meet (Dutch Raw Championships) will take place 6 December.

So once again for clarity, I was planning to run it this way:
- adaption 1,2,3,4
- accumulation 1,2,3,4,5
- comp 1,2,3,4,5
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 16, 2014, 04:00:22 AM
You could skip the 4th week of adaptation and do the full accumulation followed by comp. 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on September 16, 2014, 03:11:58 PM
You could skip the 4th week of adaptation and do the full accumulation followed by comp.

So, skipping the transmutation phase entirely is not something to be concerned about? Accumulation and Comp are the most important ones?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 16, 2014, 06:58:42 PM
Every block is in the program for a good reason. But if something has to go and you've already made it through most of the first one, keeping the base work in accumulation and the prep for comp at the end is definitely required. It would be better to do the transmutation block of course but you are constrained by time. So this plan is just a product of the circumstances and it doesn't look too bad. Be sure to update with your results.  8)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on September 16, 2014, 10:16:13 PM
Will do. Thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uncLez on September 17, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
I just noticed some weights based off the wrong max.

In Prep (3), week 2 - day 3 the warmup to the max deadlift is based on the bench max.

You can fix this by replacing the $B$3 reference in those formulas to $B$4.
Example: =Max!$B$3*C88 should be =Max!$B$4*C88

Cheers,
Anton.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on September 17, 2014, 10:04:48 PM
I just noticed some weights based off the wrong max.

In Prep (3), week 2 - day 3 the warmup to the max deadlift is based on the bench max.

You can fix this by replacing the $B$3 reference in those formulas to $B$4.
Example: =Max!$B$3*C88 should be =Max!$B$4*C88

Cheers,
Anton.

Haha Anton! Ook aan sheiko begonnen?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Dingle on September 22, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
Hey, just a question here about intensity.

I'm just curious as to why the 4 Day Program has no 90% intensity work in the program?

I've been following Sheiko programs for close a year now and love them hands down and they are working put 70kgs on my total this year already.

I only ask why there is no 90% work because of what is said in the general topic about Intensity

"Intensity Zones

Maximum strength increases are achieved with loads between 91-100%. Little skeletal muscle hypertrophy occurs and strength growth is primarily the result of consolidation of the neuromuscular system. The amount of strength improvement decreases with decreasing intensity: however, the growth of muscle mass increases. "

I understand if lifters need to put more muscle on more work in the lower percentages are needed to actually develop muscle, but surely if you are hitting CMS , MS , & MSIC you would be filling out your class already?

This leads to my next question should I be doing any 90% intensity work and if I wanted to add it in to the current 4 day program how would I go about it?



Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 22, 2014, 05:02:05 PM
You can add 90% work by following some of the examples in the same sticky you referenced.

Here are Boris' comments about 90%:

http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=41.0 (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=41.0)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Slezina on October 08, 2014, 02:50:20 PM
Hello friends. First of all, thanks for the great program. I'm currently at 10th week, did my first squat max test two days ago, today I'm doing my bench and deadlift. My results on the squat are amazing, my max was 180 kg with wraps, and two days ago I did a clean 200 kg with wraps!

Now, I have a couple questions:
1. Should I continue the program with new maxes?
2. If yes, should I use wraps? (I didn't use them leading to the new max attempt)
3. For the deadlift testing, why is the lift done to knees only?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Slezina on October 09, 2014, 12:34:12 AM
Another update, did my bench and deadlift today, did a slightly paused bench 140 kg, 20kg PR, and a 205 kg pull, 20 kg PR. So all in all, my gain was 60 kg on the total in 10 weeks. Not bad :D
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on October 09, 2014, 04:56:42 AM
Another update, did my bench and deadlift today, did a slightly paused bench 140 kg, 20kg PR, and a 205 kg pull, 20 kg PR. So all in all, my gain was 60 kg on the total in 10 weeks. Not bad :D

That's some good progress there!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Dingle on October 10, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Hello friends. First of all, thanks for the great program. I'm currently at 10th week, did my first squat max test two days ago, today I'm doing my bench and deadlift. My results on the squat are amazing, my max was 180 kg with wraps, and two days ago I did a clean 200 kg with wraps!

Now, I have a couple questions:
1. Should I continue the program with new maxes?
2. If yes, should I use wraps? (I didn't use them leading to the new max attempt)
3. For the deadlift testing, why is the lift done to knees only?

Thanks in advance!


1. This is what Robert had to say on page 2 of this post about the maxes "The first one during prep #3 is used to adjust your weights up for the remainder of the program. The last one is during the comp cycle and that's to get ready for competition." So yup!

2. 14. About Knee wraps:

50-60% -> none
70% -> light wraps
75-85% -> more tightly
90% -> very tightly
95%+ -> competition wrapping (help from an assistant is necessary!)
Thats what Boris has to say about equipement in this post "http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=13.0" Do you lift in equipment??

3. Its a typo its meant to be full standard competition deadlift :)

PS Congrats on your PB's amazing lifting. I'm testing next week.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Dingle on October 10, 2014, 11:32:32 AM
I've had a read through the universal questions about yearly loading talking about peaking for competitions etc. I'm currently finishing off study so sadly the cost of training with Mr Sheiko is out of the question ATM but will be a first on my list after I graduate. My question is if I had no comps coming up and simply wanted to train to make the most gains I guess could or should I follow the 4 day program back to back?

Or would I be better off running the first 3 cycles back to back and not doing the final comp stage?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on October 10, 2014, 06:07:20 PM
Hello Robert,

I made a few posts a few weeks back about how to modify the program to make it shorter. I am currently in week 1 of Prep 3.

As you may recall I came to the conclusion of skipping week 2 of Prep 3 (and therefore skipping the skills test) and continuing from week 3 of Prep 3 onwards so that I can make it in time for my Competition.

I have been reading others' comments and have been amazed by the kind of gains they've made on their PRs.

My question is because I am skipping the Skills Test in Prep 3:

a. would you have any recommendations on how to go about adjusting the weights in week 3 Prep 3 onwards? The skills test was meant to be used to adjust the weights for the rest of the program, but because I'm skipping it I really have no accurate gauge of how much stronger I am now. I am thinking about increasing by 5% since I have felt quite good so far.

b. The second skills test in week 2 of the Comp Prep is written a little differently to the skills test in Prep 3. In Prep 3 the % for the skills test is from 100-105. In week 2 of the Comp Prep the % is 100 only. Because I am skipping the skills test in Prep 3, should I try to go up to 105% when doing the skills test in Comp Prep? Or do you think this will have a negative effect on my Competition day performance (e.g., because it may be too taxing and cause me to fatigue unnecessarily)?

I am sad that I will have to skip week 2 of Prep 3 since I am eager to know whether I have gotten any stronger. But I will stay patient  :)

Thank you for all your help! I am liking the program so far.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Slezina on October 11, 2014, 12:25:46 AM
Hello friends. First of all, thanks for the great program. I'm currently at 10th week, did my first squat max test two days ago, today I'm doing my bench and deadlift. My results on the squat are amazing, my max was 180 kg with wraps, and two days ago I did a clean 200 kg with wraps!

Now, I have a couple questions:
1. Should I continue the program with new maxes?
2. If yes, should I use wraps? (I didn't use them leading to the new max attempt)
3. For the deadlift testing, why is the lift done to knees only?

Thanks in advance!


1. This is what Robert had to say on page 2 of this post about the maxes "The first one during prep #3 is used to adjust your weights up for the remainder of the program. The last one is during the comp cycle and that's to get ready for competition." So yup!

2. 14. About Knee wraps:

50-60% -> none
70% -> light wraps
75-85% -> more tightly
90% -> very tightly
95%+ -> competition wrapping (help from an assistant is necessary!)
Thats what Boris has to say about equipement in this post "[url]http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=13.0[/url]" Do you lift in equipment??

3. Its a typo its meant to be full standard competition deadlift :)

PS Congrats on your PB's amazing lifting. I'm testing next week.


Thank you for the answers man. The thing is, I don't like training in wraps, I prefer training without them, and just use them for the max attempts. I trained with no wraps for the 10 weeks prior to the testing, but now with the new max, done in tight wraps (wrapped myself), it's just too hard to do the training without them. Should I lower my wrapped max by 10 kg and continue the program like that with no wraps? And no, I'm not using any equipment, and I'm a natural lifter.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on October 12, 2014, 07:58:53 AM
If you're a wrapped lifter you will probably receive more benefit skills and technique wise by training in wraps more frequently. I'm pretty sure Boris advocates training as you compete so of you use a belt then train in a belt, if you use wraps then train in wraps.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dan on October 19, 2014, 12:09:57 AM
I have been running this program and things have been going well.  My question is between the different phases of the program can or should a week be taken in between the different phases as a delaod week or just keep moving along as long as you feel good.  Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on October 19, 2014, 08:09:32 AM
Hi could anyone please help me understand how to calculate the comp day attempts? What would be the steps to know what roughly the attempts should be for successful lifts assuming one is feeling good on the day?

Thanks a lot
Hai!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on October 20, 2014, 05:11:38 PM
I have been running this program and things have been going well.  My question is between the different phases of the program can or should a week be taken in between the different phases as a delaod week or just keep moving along as long as you feel good.  Thanks for any help.

Breaks are build into the program on a day to day basis. If you feel like you need a bit more of a break you can take 5% off the weights and do that until you feel more fresh. 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on October 20, 2014, 11:49:54 PM
Good friend Robbert, in phase 2 - week 5 - day 4 (saturday) the program calls for Deadlift with chains off boxes. Is this a typo? This program introduced me to a lot of new deadlift variations, but this seems like it's to weird to be true.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on October 21, 2014, 03:28:29 PM
Good friend Robbert, in phase 2 - week 5 - day 4 (saturday) the program calls for Deadlift with chains off boxes. Is this a typo? This program introduced me to a lot of new deadlift variations, but this seems like it's to weird to be true.


It's true.

(http://cs7010.vk.me/c619718/v619718182/1ec4c/jewzsNazEFE.jpg)

This guy is using long chains. If you can, set them up so that you have minimal tension but not zero when the bar is on the blocks. At the top position you should have one or two links touching or just off the ground. That way you know how much weight you've added.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Hai5 on October 22, 2014, 04:32:34 PM
Thanks for the help guys,

I was able to ask some friends to help guide me and clarify my questions.  :)

Hai.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on October 22, 2014, 11:55:15 PM
Good friend Robbert, in phase 2 - week 5 - day 4 (saturday) the program calls for Deadlift with chains off boxes. Is this a typo? This program introduced me to a lot of new deadlift variations, but this seems like it's to weird to be true.

It's true.
[/img]

This guy is using long chains. If you can, set them up so that you have minimal tension but not zero when the bar is on the blocks. At the top position you should have one or two links touching or just off the ground. That way you know how much weight you've added.

Haha it looks awesome. Okay, ill be enjoying these next saturday :D
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: delizh on November 08, 2014, 12:58:51 PM
This question may have been questioned and asnwered before but, should you keep the same maxes trough all cycles? Or increase all my maxes with 2.5kg or more for every cycle (4day prep 2) (4day prep 3) (4day prep comp)?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 08, 2014, 01:13:30 PM
This question may have been questioned and asnwered before but, should you keep the same maxes trough all cycles? Or increase all my maxes with 2.5kg or more for every cycle (4day prep 2) (4day prep 3) (4day prep comp)?

This doesn't have a specific rule. Sometimes you need to adjust the weight. Sometimes it feels light because it's supposed to feel light i.e. a planned recovery session or period. The best I can do to give you a specific answer is just to use your own best judgement. It helps if you review the program and try to see the intent of the workout or period. If you see the purpose that would make it easier to decide the right way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: norsman on November 08, 2014, 11:21:09 PM
I didn't see an answer to dingles question which i've been wondering about too. If you don't plan on competing for say 9 months. Is it preferred to re-run certain cycles and not peak the first time through?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 09, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
I didn't see an answer to dingles question which i've been wondering about too. If you don't plan on competing for say 9 months. Is it preferred to re-run certain cycles and not peak the first time through?

I think think it's a good idea to have the peaking periods anyway. You have hard days and easy days. You have hard weeks and easy weeks. Sometimes you need easy months too. For a bit more concrete reason other that just to fit a pattern, the various elements of your body have different recovery times. Compare the healing of a cut to the healing of a bone. So while a day off might allow some systems to recover, others need the easier week to recover because they have a slower recovery rate. Same goes for the easy months.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: norsman on November 10, 2014, 12:15:41 AM
Cool, that makes sense. After thinking about the benefits it probably makes sense to see where you at to make adjustments anyway.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Theseus26 on November 11, 2014, 12:28:00 AM
So, I'm in the 2nd week of my transmutation phase, and I really wanted to run the program as is before making any alterations. I have some questions now, though.

I was wondering if subbing out hyperextensions/good mornings with RDLs is an okay idea? I've noticed that on the 1 + 1/2 DL that the 1/2 portion (RDL basically) is my weakest part by far and it kills me, to the point it's difficult to finish. It's a killer. Good Mornings have done nothing to improve it nor have hyperextensions or back extensions. I figured maybe the solution is to RDL.

Has anyone experimented with some light/heavy/hypertrophy squats on DL days at all? This has me curious because I did run goblet squats 2-3 times on DL days and it felt pretty good overall.

Lastly, chest muscles. I searched before asking, but flyes bother my left shoulder. I can do a bench variation, yah, like CGBP or DB bench? I've been sticking to push ups for the time being.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Chreiz on November 11, 2014, 02:11:42 AM
So, I'm in the 2nd week of my transmutation phase, and I really wanted to run the program as is before making any alterations. I have some questions now, though.

I was wondering if subbing out hyperextensions/good mornings with RDLs is an okay idea? I've noticed that on the 1 + 1/2 DL that the 1/2 portion (RDL basically) is my weakest part by far and it kills me, to the point it's difficult to finish. It's a killer. Good Mornings have done nothing to improve it nor have hyperextensions or back extensions. I figured maybe the solution is to RDL.

Has anyone experimented with some light/heavy/hypertrophy squats on DL days at all? This has me curious because I did run goblet squats 2-3 times on DL days and it felt pretty good overall.

Lastly, chest muscles. I searched before asking, but flyes bother my left shoulder. I can do a bench variation, yah, like CGBP or DB bench? I've been sticking to push ups for the time being.

I can answer your last question: I wouldn't recommend a heavy exercise like GCBP, but DB bench (flat/incline) should be fine. Also you might have less problems with cable flyes or pec deck.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Theseus26 on November 11, 2014, 06:59:36 PM

I can answer your last question: I wouldn't recommend a heavy exercise like GCBP, but DB bench (flat/incline) should be fine. Also you might have less problems with cable flyes or pec deck.

Basically stay away from barbells? Unfortunately, I'm at a PL gym that's very minimalist. The cable machine there is a row/lat pulldown with interchangeable handles. As long as DBs are fine, I think that opens up a lot of options. I've been working on my left shoulder, so I'll see if I can give flyes a go again. Thanks for the response. :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 12, 2014, 04:32:30 PM
So, I'm in the 2nd week of my transmutation phase, and I really wanted to run the program as is before making any alterations. I have some questions now, though.

I was wondering if subbing out hyperextensions/good mornings with RDLs is an okay idea? I've noticed that on the 1 + 1/2 DL that the 1/2 portion (RDL basically) is my weakest part by far and it kills me, to the point it's difficult to finish. It's a killer. Good Mornings have done nothing to improve it nor have hyperextensions or back extensions. I figured maybe the solution is to RDL.

Has anyone experimented with some light/heavy/hypertrophy squats on DL days at all? This has me curious because I did run goblet squats 2-3 times on DL days and it felt pretty good overall.

Lastly, chest muscles. I searched before asking, but flyes bother my left shoulder. I can do a bench variation, yah, like CGBP or DB bench? I've been sticking to push ups for the time being.

Go for RDL's. Anytime I run into a situation like that I get excited.

I've done squats and deadlifts together and it was alright at first. But after a while it became a little too much for my hip. Separate days feels much better now in comparison.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on November 12, 2014, 08:23:22 PM
Good friend Robbert,

As you adviced me to do, i ran the first two blocks of this program followed up with the last block (skipping transmutation). Today i had to do evaluation for deadlift and bench, i ended up doing higher numbers, 100% felt too easy on both (i didnt go all out, since i wanna save myself for the dutch championships in 4 weeks). Should i run the last weeks with the same 1rm's i was using or do you advice me to adjust them?

I'll let you guys know the exact progress after the dutch championships.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 13, 2014, 05:00:04 AM
Good friend Robbert,

As you adviced me to do, i ran the first two blocks of this program followed up with the last block (skipping transmutation). Today i had to do evaluation for deadlift and bench, i ended up doing higher numbers, 100% felt too easy on both (i didnt go all out, since i wanna save myself for the dutch championships in 4 weeks). Should i run the last weeks with the same 1rm's i was using or do you advice me to adjust them?

I'll let you guys know the exact progress after the dutch championships.

You said something here that is important. Normally you'd see how far you've come along on the evaluation day by going up as far as you can. But since you didn't do that, as you said, because you wanted to "save yourself", I think you have some experience and know that it takes you a long time to recover. Some people bounce back really quickly. With that idea in mind I think you should keep your current maxes, get your easy 100% out of the way at the comp and try for something optimistic after that attempt. How does that type of approach work for you in your experience?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on November 16, 2014, 04:46:13 PM
That sounds about right! Thank you Robbert!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on November 21, 2014, 06:32:55 AM
First - Many thanks for the program(s) and website

Second - On the accessory movements, how "hard" should we be pushing on them?  leave a few or a lot of reps in the tank ?

Thanks
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 21, 2014, 08:53:29 AM
First - Many thanks for the program(s) and website

Second - On the accessory movements, how "hard" should we be pushing on them?  leave a few or a lot of reps in the tank ?

Thanks

I only very rarely push the accessories. Most of the time I'm just pumping some blood through and getting a good stretch. I think the situation is reversed though for junior athletes. They wouldn't push the big exercises for a while until they developed their form. In the meantime they could push the accessories and simpler exercises to develop the muscles and strength.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on November 22, 2014, 01:07:12 AM
First - Many thanks for the program(s) and website

Second - On the accessory movements, how "hard" should we be pushing on them?  leave a few or a lot of reps in the tank ?

Thanks

I personally treat the accessories like a bodybuilder would. I chase a pump, hit some extra reps if I have the energy, but basically work with a weight where I know I can pump out the sets that I need while using good form and ROM.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 22, 2014, 05:28:41 AM
I personally treat the accessories like a bodybuilder would. I chase a pump, hit some extra reps if I have the energy, but basically work with a weight where I know I can pump out the sets that I need while using good form and ROM.

I agree. We said it differently but I'm pretty sure we do the exact same thing in case anyone is confused.

After spending some time training the movements we spend some time training the muscles. Feel the stretch, contraction, and blood pumping through the muscles.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on November 22, 2014, 09:36:52 PM
Thanks guys, it's what I usually end up doing.

Another question,

I go M/T - T/F  - on the Tues - bench I did CG - which I figured would be better than comp/normal benching two days in a row - my question is, do you think this is o.k, and if so, on the 2nd day (Tues.) should I continue using CG bench, even when it calls for chains &/or boards?   ( I adjusted the % on this day)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: delizh on November 23, 2014, 02:48:53 AM
If you don't have bands or chains, what can you do to solve that problem if you don't have money enough to buy it?
Can you explode the weight up and about halfway up and you lift the weight slower like it gets heavyier?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 23, 2014, 10:23:18 AM
If you don't have bands or chains, what can you do to solve that problem if you don't have money enough to buy it?
Can you explode the weight up and about halfway up and you lift the weight slower like it gets heavyier?

You can do close grip benches with a board.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on November 23, 2014, 02:31:30 PM
If you don't have bands or chains, what can you do to solve that problem if you don't have money enough to buy it?
Can you explode the weight up and about halfway up and you lift the weight slower like it gets heavyier?

Chains really dont have to be expensive, just visit a chain/steelcable dealer and ask if they have some leftovers.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 23, 2014, 03:08:06 PM
If you don't have bands or chains, what can you do to solve that problem if you don't have money enough to buy it?
Can you explode the weight up and about halfway up and you lift the weight slower like it gets heavyier?

Chains really dont have to be expensive, just visit a chain/steelcable dealer and ask if they have some leftovers.

Got mine at a regular hardware store for $60 for 20kg. That was much better than the price I saw for the exact same thing at another location. Just depends on where you go.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on November 23, 2014, 08:38:37 PM
Thanks guys, it's what I usually end up doing.

Another question,

I go M/T - T/F  - on the Tues - bench I did CG - which I figured would be better than comp/normal benching two days in a row - my question is, do you think this is o.k, and if so, on the 2nd day (Tues.) should I continue using CG bench, even when it calls for chains &/or boards?   ( I adjusted the % on this day)

What do you think guys?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 24, 2014, 11:02:15 AM
The programs on this site were intended for every other day when possible. If you want to do back to back days you can do so. But you will need to modify the program a bit more than normal. I have tried to do M/T-R/F before and couldn't quite make it work properly. Instead of doing double benches on one day with the second less intense you could do one session each on back to back days. Then on the second day you could work a little hard than you would have on the second session of the first day.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on November 24, 2014, 06:14:40 PM
I used to train M/T-T/F when I couldn't train weekends and actually survived it ok. It sucked sometimes but I just got it done.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: lanidrac on November 24, 2014, 07:25:07 PM
I used to train M/T-T/F when I couldn't train weekends and actually survived it ok. It sucked sometimes but I just got it done.

I also made it work with mostly MON-TUES-THURS-FRI sessions. You just need to pay attention to recovery, make sure you eat plenty and get atleast 8 hours of sleep per night. But everyone has difference recovery rates and stress levels.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on November 24, 2014, 11:08:04 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.

Hope you don't mind another question - I train and lift "raw" - changing the 2nd day to a CG bench (with chains or board as programed) - is it better or more suitable for a raw lifter or keep it as is - comp bench (with chains or board as is programed)?

I don't want to change much if anything at all in the program - but if there is anything that would suit a raw lifter over a geared one, I'd like to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 25, 2014, 09:22:46 AM
Thanks for the replies guys.

Hope you don't mind another question - I train and lift "raw" - changing the 2nd day to a CG bench (with chains or board as programed) - is it better or more suitable for a raw lifter or keep it as is - comp bench (with chains or board as is programed)?

I don't want to change much if anything at all in the program - but if there is anything that would suit a raw lifter over a geared one, I'd like to take advantage of it.

If you can't think of a clear and compelling reason to change it then leave it as is. Practicing the comp bench should carry over better to the actual comp bench than some other lift, provided the other lift isn't addressing a critical weakness.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: SUBZ on November 25, 2014, 04:47:03 PM
Should I start with the 4-day a week program? I am 23 years old with a BW of 86kg and a total of 475kg. I will soon be done with the 3-day program.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 25, 2014, 06:16:15 PM
Boris likes people doing 4 days when they can. If you can fit it in then yeah, go for it. That's not to say that 3 days can't work though. I currently do 3 due to a few reasons but I can still make progress like that. I quite like it actually. I use inflated maxes and so wind up doing heavy stuff more often.

The programs are flexible. Boris said "use them creatively". He's the first author of the programs but each user is also a co-author.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Dingle on November 26, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
Hey, Im just looking through the App workouts and without giving away to much to people who have not bought them I just have one question.

The advanced maximum volume cycle if followed for the full 20 weeks doesn't seem to have a testing like the mid cycle one does? any reason for this just curious and kind of excited to give it a try next year.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on November 26, 2014, 10:09:17 AM
Hey, Im just looking through the App workouts and without giving away to much to people who have not bought them I just have one question.

The advanced maximum volume cycle if followed for the full 20 weeks doesn't seem to have a testing like the mid cycle one does? any reason for this just curious and kind of excited to give it a try next year.

Right, just volume and more volume until the first week of the comp period for the test. Your numbers probably will be fairly stable by that point. So the weights don't need to be adjusted as frequently.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on December 01, 2014, 09:13:41 PM
Is there any particular board height that should be used?   And do you think there is a difference between a shirted lifter and a raw one, when using boards?     Such as a 1 or 2 board for a raw lifter, and a 2/3/4 for a shirted one?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 02, 2014, 05:57:36 AM
Is there any particular board height that should be used?   And do you think there is a difference between a shirted lifter and a raw one, when using boards?     Such as a 1 or 2 board for a raw lifter, and a 2/3/4 for a shirted one?

Thanks.

That's how it works for me. I lift raw and prefer less spacing. I could easily see that changing though if I put a shirt on and had that extra assistance at the bottom.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: SuperSonic440 on December 07, 2014, 01:13:41 AM
Would a reactive sling shot be able to replace the Bench w/chains on this program?
I plan on using a band to replace deadlifts w/chains.
Would a #2 rogue fitness blue band be a good starting point if I anchor the band by stepping on the it?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: biomechanical on December 08, 2014, 11:16:53 AM
I have just come off specific programming for a Push/Pull only competition and now only have 9 weeks before State Titles.

Would it be a suitable idea to run the first 4 weeks (adaptation) then the last four weeks (realization) of the over 80kg 4/week training cycle in preparation for this event.

I have had so much success with Sheiko in the past. Constantly my go to programming for guaranteed results.

Thanks everyone
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: AndersE on December 08, 2014, 06:39:37 PM
I'm about to start the 20 week program (found in the app under advance and medium load). End of week 20 will be the national championship compition (master, raw 83kg) I have two questions regarding the program:

-First when setting your maxes should I use compition PB or max weight during training? I have completed two 13 weeks programs  with Smolov for squats and when I set the max weight in that program I used 10-15kg below my true max. And I'm glad I did, because I was really close to fail during some of the sets even though I used a smaller weight input... What's your recommendation?

-Secondly, I'm planning to split some training days in two workouts. Doing half of the program at lunchtime and the remaining of the daily workout in the evening. Is there any negative impact on the progress if I do it like this?

Thanks for an excellent homepage and app!!!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: reddead on December 10, 2014, 02:17:50 AM
So I just finished the first 4 week prep period, and decided to sign up for a powerlifting meet that is a mere 11 weeks away. I have to cut 5 weeks of training.

How should I proceed? Do the 6 week accumulation block, then the comp block while skipping the third (transmutation?) block?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Heinz Pospischil on December 10, 2014, 05:17:40 AM
Similar to reddead my meet is like 13 weeks away, march 15th.
I want to use this 4 day programm to increase my strength, especially bench.
I'm somewhat intermediate (with a total of 490) but i have plenty of time to train and think i can handle the volume.

1. Question: Since this is a 20 week programm, which weeks should i cut out to peak on march 15th?

2. Question: See little lats/upper back here. Not sure my shoulders will like this. Is it ok to replace stuff like GM or Hyperextensions with light rows and some pull ups, since there is already a lot of stress on lower back from squats and deadlifts?

3. Question: Unfortunatly no board or chains in my gym. Any recomendation how to substite these two?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: norsman on December 10, 2014, 09:47:48 PM
If you read earlier in this thread i think robert advised to just count backwards from end of program according to how far away your meet is and start there.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 11, 2014, 06:16:25 AM
Would a reactive sling shot be able to replace the Bench w/chains on this program?
I plan on using a band to replace deadlifts w/chains.
Would a #2 rogue fitness blue band be a good starting point if I anchor the band by stepping on the it?

You could use the slingshot and band instead. Give it a try and comment on how it works out for you.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 11, 2014, 06:30:02 AM
I have just come off specific programming for a Push/Pull only competition and now only have 9 weeks before State Titles.

Would it be a suitable idea to run the first 4 weeks (adaptation) then the last four weeks (realization) of the over 80kg 4/week training cycle in preparation for this event.

I have had so much success with Sheiko in the past. Constantly my go to programming for guaranteed results.

Thanks everyone

I would modify things a little more than that. The first four weeks are intended to fix squat problems. That's not what you need now. You want to maintain sport form until your next meet against a background of fatigue. Instead I would take it a bit easier the first two weeks then bring the weights back up but with a slightly reduced volume. Then for the last few weeks before your comp I might reorder the weeks around to put the largest load week closer to the comp date since you're not coming off a full training cycle.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 11, 2014, 06:47:50 AM
I'm about to start the 20 week program (found in the app under advance and medium load). End of week 20 will be the national championship compition (master, raw 83kg) I have two questions regarding the program:

-First when setting your maxes should I use compition PB or max weight during training? I have completed two 13 weeks programs  with Smolov for squats and when I set the max weight in that program I used 10-15kg below my true max. And I'm glad I did, because I was really close to fail during some of the sets even though I used a smaller weight input... What's your recommendation?

-Secondly, I'm planning to split some training days in two workouts. Doing half of the program at lunchtime and the remaining of the daily workout in the evening. Is there any negative impact on the progress if I do it like this?

Thanks for an excellent homepage and app!!!

Boris always insists that you use your real max. Some people successfully use inflated maxes as well but that's a bit more risky.

Some workouts use an old weightlifting trick of putting the lift you want to emphasize first and last in a workout.  Some more recent research supports this practice. If you were to split the workouts I would design them differently. For example, if I were doing a double bench day I might start of the a.m. workout with a longer warm up of the involved muscles. Then work up to some heavy sets followed by a cool down with some other smaller but related exercises. My visual aid for this would be a pyramid. For the p.m. workout I would work everything with a flatter structure. So the little exercises get more weight/sets/reps and the bench pulls back a little bit.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 11, 2014, 06:50:33 AM
So I just finished the first 4 week prep period, and decided to sign up for a powerlifting meet that is a mere 11 weeks away. I have to cut 5 weeks of training.

How should I proceed? Do the 6 week accumulation block, then the comp block while skipping the third (transmutation?) block?

That fits nicely and should work out. Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 11, 2014, 06:56:47 AM
Similar to reddead my meet is like 13 weeks away, march 15th.
I want to use this 4 day programm to increase my strength, especially bench.
I'm somewhat intermediate (with a total of 490) but i have plenty of time to train and think i can handle the volume.

1. Question: Since this is a 20 week programm, which weeks should i cut out to peak on march 15th?

2. Question: See little lats/upper back here. Not sure my shoulders will like this. Is it ok to replace stuff like GM or Hyperextensions with light rows and some pull ups, since there is already a lot of stress on lower back from squats and deadlifts?

3. Question: Unfortunatly no board or chains in my gym. Any recomendation how to substite these two?

If you count backwards you'll cut out the first four weeks (common squat technique fix) and three  more weeks from the main prep sequence. If what you've been doing for the previous months looks like same kind of thing then yes, just count backwards. If you haven't been doing something that looks like prep work then cut the block after prep work and just go from the main prep to comp. 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dan on December 12, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
Help needed with coninuity of training.  I have be doing this 4 day program and things are going well.   I am stronger in all 3 lifts.  I have about 4-5 weeks left before it is complete.  I have went through the program basing all of my numbers on my 1 rep max prior to the program and have not adjusted anything and plan to complete it this way.  My question is after I complete this, now what.  I had thought about taking a week off and then just re-running the program with my new numbers.  Any reason I shouldnt do this?? 
Thanks for any help,
Dan
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 13, 2014, 06:35:21 PM
Help needed with coninuity of training.  I have be doing this 4 day program and things are going well.   I am stronger in all 3 lifts.  I have about 4-5 weeks left before it is complete.  I have went through the program basing all of my numbers on my 1 rep max prior to the program and have not adjusted anything and plan to complete it this way.  My question is after I complete this, now what.  I had thought about taking a week off and then just re-running the program with my new numbers.  Any reason I shouldnt do this?? 
Thanks for any help,
Dan

I think that's a good idea. Do you still need the front squats though? If not you could skip those first four weeks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Matty_pee on December 15, 2014, 10:49:57 AM
On week 2 of the program right now.

Will have to buy some chains tomorrow, the program is calling for chained bench on Wednesday.

I was a little surprised to see my meagre total qualify me for the 4 day a week program, I've been warned I may fail, but the challenge should be good for as long as it lasts.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Slezina on December 15, 2014, 06:04:34 PM
I just finished the program, tested my maxes yesterday. It didn't go too well to be honest, I was expecting more. In the first testing (12th week I think) my gains were great: squat 177.5 -> 200, bench 125 -> 140, deadlift 182.5 -> 205, in total 60 kg. My bodyweight went from 87.5 kg to 92-92.5 kg. The rest 8 weeks of the program didn't do nothing for me, didn't get any stronger from it, failed a 205 kg squat, 210 kg deadlift and barely lifted 145 kg on bench, but I don't count it since I raised my glutes from the bench. So all in all I'm really impressed by the gains in 12 week period, but the second period of 8 weeks is really, really weak training, very little volume and intensity. So can anyone more experienced say something about the last 8 weeks, why is the volume lowered so much, and what's the purpose of those 8 weeks. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 15, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
I just finished the program, tested my maxes yesterday. It didn't go too well to be honest, I was expecting more. In the first testing (12th week I think) my gains were great: squat 177.5 -> 200, bench 125 -> 140, deadlift 182.5 -> 205, in total 60 kg. My bodyweight went from 87.5 kg to 92-92.5 kg. The rest 8 weeks of the program didn't do nothing for me, didn't get any stronger from it, failed a 205 kg squat, 210 kg deadlift and barely lifted 145 kg on bench, but I don't count it since I raised my glutes from the bench. So all in all I'm really impressed by the gains in 12 week period, but the second period of 8 weeks is really, really weak training, very little volume and intensity. So can anyone more experienced say something about the last 8 weeks, why is the volume lowered so much, and what's the purpose of those 8 weeks. Thanks in advance!

The reduction in volume is for you to recover from what you have done. You can't just go up and up and up. You have to recover as well. Having set some new records at 12 weeks you should have a good idea what you'll be able to do when the end of the program rolls around and it's competition day. You don't want the competition day to be a total unknown. So you have 8 weeks to recover and hold onto what you've gained and show those results when it matters. If you had another 8 weeks of loading you could have actually reversed some of your gains and possibly risked some injuries. All in all, you added 60kg in 20 weeks and didn't have any serious issues (that I know of) along the way. Count that as a win.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Slezina on December 15, 2014, 09:23:37 PM
I just finished the program, tested my maxes yesterday. It didn't go too well to be honest, I was expecting more. In the first testing (12th week I think) my gains were great: squat 177.5 -> 200, bench 125 -> 140, deadlift 182.5 -> 205, in total 60 kg. My bodyweight went from 87.5 kg to 92-92.5 kg. The rest 8 weeks of the program didn't do nothing for me, didn't get any stronger from it, failed a 205 kg squat, 210 kg deadlift and barely lifted 145 kg on bench, but I don't count it since I raised my glutes from the bench. So all in all I'm really impressed by the gains in 12 week period, but the second period of 8 weeks is really, really weak training, very little volume and intensity. So can anyone more experienced say something about the last 8 weeks, why is the volume lowered so much, and what's the purpose of those 8 weeks. Thanks in advance!

The reduction in volume is for you to recover from what you have done. You can't just go up and up and up. You have to recover as well. Having set some new records at 12 weeks you should have a good idea what you'll be able to do when the end of the program rolls around and it's competition day. You don't want the competition day to be a total unknown. So you have 8 weeks to recover and hold onto what you've gained and show those results when it matters. If you had another 8 weeks of loading you could have actually reversed some of your gains and possibly risked some injuries. All in all, you added 60kg in 20 weeks and didn't have any serious issues (that I know of) along the way. Count that as a win.

The thing is, I don't compete, so I never train for a competition. And after the 12 week period, I took a week off to recover, that seemed like enough recovery to me, 8 weeks is a bit too much, atleast for me. But I get it, for an important competition it's better to train lighter for 8 weeks and conserve what you got for the comp day. I'm gonna start the program again, but I'll do the first 12 weeks, deload for a week and do 12 weeks again, I think I'll advance both times, since my work capacity is very high and I handle the volume easily. In the last 3 week period, I was finishing my workouts in 45 minutes on average, really blasted trough them effortlessly. It's probably because I have a lot of free time to rest and my nutrition is great. Thanks for the answers, I'll report my gains after the 1st and 2nd 12 week period!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 16, 2014, 04:54:42 AM
The thing is, I don't compete, so I never train for a competition. And after the 12 week period, I took a week off to recover, that seemed like enough recovery to me, 8 weeks is a bit too much, atleast for me. But I get it, for an important competition it's better to train lighter for 8 weeks and conserve what you got for the comp day. I'm gonna start the program again, but I'll do the first 12 weeks, deload for a week and do 12 weeks again, I think I'll advance both times, since my work capacity is very high and I handle the volume easily. In the last 3 week period, I was finishing my workouts in 45 minutes on average, really blasted trough them effortlessly. It's probably because I have a lot of free time to rest and my nutrition is great. Thanks for the answers, I'll report my gains after the 1st and 2nd 12 week period!

Alright, do let us know how it goes. Just be aware that gaining muscular strength is actually the easy part. Staying trouble-free along the way is the hard part. The different systems of the body have different recovery times. Think of how long it takes for a bruise to heal versus a broken bone. Muscles, tendons, bones, and the CNS all have individual recovery rates. So a week off may allow enough time for some to recover but others will still be accumulating fatigue.

That said, we're all different and what works for one person may not work for others. Just keep these things in mind as you go and make any needed changes along the way. Do you have a training log? It would be interesting to follow how things are going.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on December 25, 2014, 02:14:56 AM
Hi,

 I was wanting to clarify something - Deadlift w/2 pauses, 5-7cm above knee and below knee.

I am assuming it means Deadlift above the knee first, then on the way down, pause below the knee?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 25, 2014, 04:16:36 PM
Hi,

 I was wanting to clarify something - Deadlift w/2 pauses, 5-7cm above knee and below knee.

I am assuming it means Deadlift above the knee first, then on the way down, pause below the knee?

Thanks.

Start from the floor and pause below the knees and then above the knees on the way up.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: norsman on December 26, 2014, 10:10:41 PM
Do the different preparatory periods in this 4-day program correspond roughly to any of the old programs that have been around? Like is prep1 based of 29? prep2 37? Something like that?

Between competitions would it work to skip transmutation and use competition prep as a deload before running full program again? Or better to skip competition instead?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on December 28, 2014, 10:38:08 AM
Do the different preparatory periods in this 4-day program correspond roughly to any of the old programs that have been around? Like is prep1 based of 29? prep2 37? Something like that?

Between competitions would it work to skip transmutation and use competition prep as a deload before running full program again? Or better to skip competition instead?

They are written by the same person but that's about the end of the relationship between the 3 and 4 day programs.

What to do between competitions is very hard to say. It depends on many things and it's best to work it out when you get there.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on December 31, 2014, 08:07:39 PM
If I have to take a week off during the 20 weeks around week 12-13 would it be okay to do so and just continue with the program afterwards? 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 01, 2015, 02:13:19 PM
If I have to take a week off during the 20 weeks around week 12-13 would it be okay to do so and just continue with the program afterwards?

Yeah, that's okay.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 05, 2015, 02:51:29 AM
"Here is my 4 day program modified for more hypertrophy emphasis. I currently do something just like this and enjoy it very much. That said, I know people that this would be terrible for. Mainly because they are strong and have bad form.

It's still pretty much the same but there are more lifts between 70-80% for the main lifts and more additional lift volume. Special exercises are left alone so they do what they are supposed to do without interference. 85% and above are left alone too. Reps go high enough to trigger a stronger metabolic response but not too high as to degrade form excessively and lengthen recovery. So it's not a dedicated hypertrophy program, just one with an added hypertrophy emphasis."



Hi Robert,

Do you find the modifications you made on the main lifts, in anyway have stopped or would stop/interfere in making strength gains?

I am following the 4 day program (which I love btw), but at times when it calls for 4x2 @70%/80% etc.. I know I have loads more in the tank.   
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 05, 2015, 02:29:31 PM
"Here is my 4 day program modified for more hypertrophy emphasis. I currently do something just like this and enjoy it very much. That said, I know people that this would be terrible for. Mainly because they are strong and have bad form.

It's still pretty much the same but there are more lifts between 70-80% for the main lifts and more additional lift volume. Special exercises are left alone so they do what they are supposed to do without interference. 85% and above are left alone too. Reps go high enough to trigger a stronger metabolic response but not too high as to degrade form excessively and lengthen recovery. So it's not a dedicated hypertrophy program, just one with an added hypertrophy emphasis."


Hi Robert,

Do you find the modifications you made on the main lifts, in anyway have stopped or would stop/interfere in making strength gains?

I am following the 4 day program (which I love btw), but at times when it calls for 4x2 @70%/80% etc.. I know I have loads more in the tank.

Did the changes prevent or hinder my progress? No, but it does make my workouts longer which I don't always have the time for.

One easy way to get a little extra work done when you feel strong is to do the reps with longs pauses and explosive concentric tempos. A little extra power at the bottom is usually not a bad idea and it makes the all the fuss about weight/sets/reps simple. Don't make every workout hard though. You need easy, medium, and hard workouts all working together.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 05, 2015, 04:30:28 PM
"Here is my 4 day program modified for more hypertrophy emphasis. I currently do something just like this and enjoy it very much. That said, I know people that this would be terrible for. Mainly because they are strong and have bad form.

It's still pretty much the same but there are more lifts between 70-80% for the main lifts and more additional lift volume. Special exercises are left alone so they do what they are supposed to do without interference. 85% and above are left alone too. Reps go high enough to trigger a stronger metabolic response but not too high as to degrade form excessively and lengthen recovery. So it's not a dedicated hypertrophy program, just one with an added hypertrophy emphasis."


Hi Robert,

Do you find the modifications you made on the main lifts, in anyway have stopped or would stop/interfere in making strength gains?

I am following the 4 day program (which I love btw), but at times when it calls for 4x2 @70%/80% etc.. I know I have loads more in the tank.

Did the changes prevent or hinder my progress? No, but it does make my workouts longer which I don't always have the time for.

One easy way to get a little extra work done when you feel strong is to do the reps with longs pauses and explosive concentric tempos. A little extra power at the bottom is usually not a bad idea and it makes the all the fuss about weight/sets/reps simple. Don't make every workout hard though. You need easy, medium, and hard workouts all working together.

I have been incorporating these things in some of my bench sessions, and squatting ones, and it definitely makes a difference.

If I was to add a few more reps like you have done for the main movements (I would copy the exact same as you have done), would that be o.k, as seeing that I am prep 2 and week 4 - or would that or do you think that compromise what I have done up to this point?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 05, 2015, 05:32:47 PM
If your form is really good then yeah it should be fine. Extra reps will normally degrade your form a little bit and those reps will be incorporated as part of the "practice". So if your form is already shaky then that would be a bad thing. But if your form is good you can probably stretch the sets out a bit without harm.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 06, 2015, 03:59:05 AM
If your form is really good then yeah it should be fine. Extra reps will normally degrade your form a little bit and those reps will be incorporated as part of the "practice". So if your form is already shaky then that would be a bad thing. But if your form is good you can probably stretch the sets out a bit without harm.

Hey Robert, many thanks for answering my queries.

I hope you don't mind a few more questions. 

I absolutely respect Sheiko and his programs, and I sure he writes up his programs with the intention of having  it followed as is, as there is point to everything you are doing on every lift, %, reps etc..

This is why I'm curious or wondering if I added like yourself, if it would be counter productive to the program.  I wouldn't want to comprise the strength gains that one would achieve by following the program as is.  I would take it you've been training this way for quite a while?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 06, 2015, 04:25:10 PM
Actually he writes his templates as just starting points where most of the work is already done and you are supposed to make them individual programs by adjusting them so that they meet your needs. He considers each user as a co-author and tries to provide some useful information so that you can make changes more intelligently. Even so, I find that making mistakes when changing things is just part of the process. Trying something, having it fail, then figuring out why and moving forward again is how we learn what works.

What I have learned is that his system basically boils down to one thing -- weakness correction. Find a problem, think of how it can be fixed, make some changes to the program, then give it a run and see how it works. If it doesn't work, start over. If it does, keep doing it and move on to the next problem.

Boris lets me write my own schedule now and he comments about what I'm doing. Sometimes things look fairly different than what you see here. There are only a few categories people can find themselves in. You could be:

1) strong with bad technique
2) weak with bad technique
3) strong with good technique
4) weak with good technique

Number 1 is common, #2 is a typical beginner, #3 is easy to train, and #4 is not the most common. So when writing a program with absolutely no info about the user other than they are not a beginner, a safe default would be #1. Then look at the most common mistakes and write a plan that addresses those. That's what you see here. If your starting point if one of the other cases you'll need to make different types of changes that are relevant to the different weak points an individual has. Some people might benefit from training with inflated maxes or more reps. Lots of things are possible but let me just end by saying that whatever comes out at the end is supposed to be thoughtful and purposeful training towards a specific aim and not just work for it's own sake.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 06, 2015, 05:16:01 PM
Actually he writes his templates as just starting points where most of the work is already done and you are supposed to make them individual programs by adjusting them so that they meet your needs. He considers each user as a co-author and tries to provide some useful information so that you can make changes more intelligently. Even so, I find that making mistakes when changing things is just part of the process. Trying something, having it fail, then figuring out why and moving forward again is how we learn what works.

What I have learned is that his system basically boils down to one thing -- weakness correction. Find a problem, think of how it can be fixed, make some changes to the program, then give it a run and see how it works. If it doesn't work, start over. If it does, keep doing it and move on to the next problem.

Boris lets me write my own schedule now and he comments about what I'm doing. Sometimes things look fairly different than what you see here. There are only a few categories people can find themselves in. You could be:

1) strong with bad technique
2) weak with bad technique
3) strong with good technique
4) weak with good technique

Number 1 is common, #2 is a typical beginner, #3 is easy to train, and #4 is not the most common. So when writing a program with absolutely no info about the user other than they are not a beginner, a safe default would be #1. Then look at the most common mistakes and write a plan that addresses those. That's what you see here. If your starting point if one of the other cases you'll need to make different types of changes that are relevant to the different weak points an individual has. Some people might benefit from training with inflated maxes or more reps. Lots of things are possible but let me just end by saying that whatever comes out at the end is supposed to be thoughtful and purposeful training towards a specific aim and not just work for it's own sake.

I knew this, and yet wrote something completely different, as I remember you mentioning this already - my apologies. 

I suppose it would be better to wait until I test my maxes, before deciding if I should add a few more reps etc..  Would u think that would be a better idea, as I would at least have a firm idea as to how much, if any, I have gained lifting wise?

That last point is golden.  It is one that I adhere to strictly now, as I gain better knowledge at lifting.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 06, 2015, 06:02:29 PM
Yeah, stick with what you started with until testing maxes. Then with that info in hand you can decide what needs to be done. If you change things now it won't be as clear when you get your new maxes. You might be surprised at your results even though many sets felt easy along the way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Alex Hunter on January 11, 2015, 07:00:33 PM
Hi guys,

I am new to the sheiko program and i am about to start it. I have gone through the entire program, and just got 1 question.

Can someone please clarify this exactly 4 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift  (75% 3 reps 4 sets)
I read a previous post about this in this thread already, but still dont quite get it. does this mean;

pull from the floor to lock out, half rep, lock out, half rep, lock out, back to the floor and repeat 4 times and this equals 1 of the 3 reps i am ment to do??

sorry if that sounds completely stupid, but i cant seem to make sense of it.

also when exactly do you test your maxes? Is that on prep 3 week 2, where it states 100-105%? surely most people are going past 105% to achieve the results i have been reading about at this stage of the program

Thanks for the help!
Alex
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Matty_pee on January 13, 2015, 04:36:25 AM
Hi guys,

I am new to the sheiko program and i am about to start it. I have gone through the entire program, and just got 1 question.

Can someone please clarify this exactly 4 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift  (75% 3 reps 4 sets)
I read a previous post about this in this thread already, but still dont quite get it. does this mean;

pull from the floor to lock out, half rep, lock out, half rep, lock out, back to the floor and repeat 4 times and this equals 1 of the 3 reps i am ment to do??

sorry if that sounds completely stupid, but i cant seem to make sense of it.

also when exactly do you test your maxes? Is that on prep 3 week 2, where it states 100-105%? surely most people are going past 105% to achieve the results i have been reading about at this stage of the program

Thanks for the help!
Alex

The one that confuses even more is "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating"
for a single rep i think thats 2 full deads, then 2 1 and one half deads?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on January 13, 2015, 09:20:37 AM
Most of phase 1 says:
"Bench press w/chains plus 8-10 kg to each side in addition to this weight"
"Deadlift w/chains, 8-10kg each side plus this weight"

While the rest of the program it simply says "bench press w/ chains" or "deadlift w/ chains"

Is it always plus 8-10kg to each side in addition to indicated weight or are the ones that just say w/ chains  the weight is suppose to be after chains are added?

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 13, 2015, 10:55:45 AM
Most of phase 1 says:
"Bench press w/chains plus 8-10 kg to each side in addition to this weight"
"Deadlift w/chains, 8-10kg each side plus this weight"

While the rest of the program it simply says "bench press w/ chains" or "deadlift w/ chains"

Is it always plus 8-10kg to each side in addition to indicated weight or are the ones that just say w/ chains  the weight is suppose to be after chains are added?

Chains are always added the same way.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 13, 2015, 11:03:52 AM
Hi guys,

I am new to the sheiko program and i am about to start it. I have gone through the entire program, and just got 1 question.

Can someone please clarify this exactly 1 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift  (75% 3 reps 4 sets)
I read a previous post about this in this thread already, but still dont quite get it. does this mean;

pull from the floor to lock out, half rep, lock out, half rep, lock out, back to the floor and repeat 4 times and this equals 1 of the 3 reps i am ment to do??

sorry if that sounds completely stupid, but i cant seem to make sense of it.

also when exactly do you test your maxes? Is that on prep 3 week 2, where it states 100-105%? surely most people are going past 105% to achieve the results i have been reading about at this stage of the program

Thanks for the help!
Alex

The one that confuses even more is "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating"
for a single rep i think thats 2 full deads, then 2 1 and one half deads?


Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor

That counts as 3 reps. Do that for 4 sets.


Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor,
pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor

That's "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating".

"also when exactly do you test your maxes? Is that on prep 3 week 2, where it states 100-105%?"

That's when you test them, yes. If you can do more than 105% by all means do so. But if you get more than 105% and start using those maxes going forward you should not add it all at once. Add a portion of your gains to your old maxes, get used to it, then add the rest.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 15, 2015, 04:52:54 AM
If you can do more than 105% by all means do so. But if you get more than 105% and start using those maxes going forward you should not add it all at once. Add a portion of your gains to your old maxes, get used to it, then add the rest.

A couple of questions on this if you don't mind.

1) Would you suggest trying for more than 105%? if so..

2) ex.. If you get 110% , would you suggest using the 105% numbers, then as you get used to it, then add the other 5% (110%)? if so,

3) How would you do this? By this I mean, split the remaining weeks up, using the extra 5% of your new max, then halfway left in the routine, add the other 5%?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 15, 2015, 01:06:53 PM
If you can do more than 105% by all means do so. But if you get more than 105% and start using those maxes going forward you should not add it all at once. Add a portion of your gains to your old maxes, get used to it, then add the rest.

A couple of questions on this if you don't mind.

1) Would you suggest trying for more than 105%? if so..

2) ex.. If you get 110% , would you suggest using the 105% numbers, then as you get used to it, then add the other 5% (110%)? if so,

3) How would you do this? By this I mean, split the remaining weeks up, using the extra 5% of your new max, then halfway left in the routine, add the other 5%?

Thanks.

1) Yes, find your max. Whatever it is. 105% is on there because 5% in just a short period of time, at that stage of a lifting career, is probably an upper limit. It's not meant to be an actual ceiling though.

2) If you get a big jump in maxes you'll need to transition into using them. Otherwise you'll get a big jump in load. How you stretch it out though is up to you and mostly depends on how you feel and what's on the horizon.

3) How to split it? You could try that. It also depends on how much 5% is exactly. There aren't any fixed rules other than if it's a lot of extra weight, spread it out over time. 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on January 15, 2015, 06:24:40 PM
Started the new 4 day program last week and I'm loving it so far. I did a 4 day CMS cycle a few years back when I competed in the 198 lbs division and made tremendous gains doing it for a summer. I've also done a Sergey Mor meet prep cycle in the past which I liked.

I'm enjoying the variety in this program with the front squats, squats with pause halfway down, deadlift w/pause at knees then lockout, board press, bench with chains, etc. I can tell that it is already helping my technique.

I am a CMS lifter with a 1500 lbs/ 680 kg total in the 220 lbs (100kg) division). While my squat has continued to climb and I hit a PR at my last meet in December I have hit a plateau on the bench and deadlift recently which I want to improve upon before Raw Nationals.

Robert, I've been doing some of your assistance volume recommendations as well from your modified hypertrophy program. Thanks for posting that program.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 17, 2015, 01:08:27 PM
No problem. I've got another one I'll get around to posting one day if I can just clean it all up.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 19, 2015, 12:52:58 AM
No problem. I've got another one I'll get around to posting one day if I can just clean it all up.

That would be very cool to see.

This is probably a stupid question, but I wanted to ask to make sure - in Prep 2 Week 6 Day 3, the 3rd movement is a Deadlift, is that correct?  No chains or boxes etc..?  Just a straight deadlift?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Matty_pee on January 19, 2015, 09:01:40 AM
No problem. I've got another one I'll get around to posting one day if I can just clean it all up.

That would be very cool to see.

This is probably a stupid question, but I wanted to ask to make sure - in Prep 2 Week 6 Day 3, the 3rd movement is a Deadlift, is that correct?  No chains or boxes etc..?  Just a straight deadlift?

Thanks.

Vanilla deadlifts is what I have on my sheet too.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 19, 2015, 01:41:31 PM
Have to do some regular old deadlifts once in a while too.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on January 19, 2015, 10:52:53 PM
Robert,
I had deadlift with chains last workout. I am able to set up the bench press with chains fine with no problem. However, I was running into some issues with the deadlifts with chains. I found that on the sets greater than 1 rep when I lowered the weight the plates would hit the chain links on the ground causing me to have to re-adjust the bar on many of the reps. I placed the chains on the end of the bar then attached a clip on both sides to prevent the chains from coming off the bar. Is there a better method for setting up the deadlift with chains? Pics or a video link would help. Thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on January 20, 2015, 05:27:10 AM
Have to do some regular old deadlifts once in a while too.

Hahaha. 

As for chains when deadlifting, I've put the chains in the middle of the bar at times, so as not to have them hit the weights.

Perhaps he could try this.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 20, 2015, 11:31:07 AM
Robert,
I had deadlift with chains last workout. I am able to set up the bench press with chains fine with no problem. However, I was running into some issues with the deadlifts with chains. I found that on the sets greater than 1 rep when I lowered the weight the plates would hit the chain links on the ground causing me to have to re-adjust the bar on many of the reps. I placed the chains on the end of the bar then attached a clip on both sides to prevent the chains from coming off the bar. Is there a better method for setting up the deadlift with chains? Pics or a video link would help. Thanks!

Same problem for me. There's an easy solution if you're doing sumo though. Just put the chains in the middle. For conventional deadlifts I set the bar up on blocks so the bar is below the knees. Then I stand on some plates like I would for deficit deadlifts. Now the chain can rest on the floor without getting under the plates.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Spatz on January 20, 2015, 11:03:39 PM
Can someone please clarify this exactly 1 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift  (75% 3 reps 4 sets)

The one that confuses even more is "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating"


Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor

That counts as 3 reps. Do that for 4 sets.


Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor,
pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1),
half rep (another 1), lock out,
back to the floor

That's "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating".

First off, this is a great explanation, thank you for that. I was reading ahead in the program and went "wtf?" when I came to that prescription.

However, I still don't understand the "alternating" part of it. I finally got the "1 + 1/2 (x2)" and "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2)" part after reading your post a few times, but what is alternating here? Your grip?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on January 21, 2015, 06:00:36 AM
I'm currently on week 4 of the first block and the date for the meet I would like to do just got posted for April 19th (12 weeks starting next week), which weeks should I skip to peak for the meet?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 21, 2015, 03:38:58 PM
The one that confuses even more is "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating"

Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1 full),
half rep (another 1 half), lock out,
back to the floor,
pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1 full),
half rep (another 1 half), lock out,
back to the floor

That's "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating".

I added some emphasis to hopefully make it easier to see. I didn't know what other name to give that exercise.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 21, 2015, 03:41:13 PM
I'm currently on week 4 of the first block and the date for the meet I would like to do just got posted for April 19th (12 weeks starting next week), which weeks should I skip to peak for the meet?

Maybe you could cut one from each remaining block.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Spatz on January 21, 2015, 08:13:43 PM
The one that confuses even more is "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating"

Pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1 full),
half rep (another 1 half), lock out,
back to the floor,
pull from the floor to lock out (that's 1 full),
half rep (another 1 half), lock out,
back to the floor

That's "1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating".

I added some emphasis to hopefully make it easier to see. I didn't know what other name to give that exercise.

That makes perfect sense, I figured it was something simple I was overlooking. Thanks again for the explanation!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on January 22, 2015, 08:02:33 PM
Robert thanks for the recommendation with the chains. I pull conventional so will try that out. Would love to see that other program template you said you had as well. I've been doing your hypertrophy recommendations on all the assistance work on the 4day program.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 23, 2015, 06:17:08 PM
Robert thanks for the recommendation with the chains. I pull conventional so will try that out. Would love to see that other program template you said you had as well. I've been doing your hypertrophy recommendations on all the assistance work on the 4day program.

I have a spreadsheet that's a bit of a mess and not really a plan that could be followed. But I have some bits that might be useful.

Here are some patterns I use for extra stress workouts. These are for squats but I use them for bench too.
I'll use these every other week and they'll be sandwiched in between the first and second session of another exercise. The other days are mostly meat and potatoes 80-85% type sets that you typically find in the spreadsheets.

Super Sets    1-2   %   reps   sets
   Squat   50%   5   1
   Squat   60%   5   1
   Squat 1   65%   5   1
   Squat 2   73%   5   1
   Squat 1   65%   5   1
   Squat 2   73%   5   1
   Squat 1   65%   5   1
   Squat 2   73%   5   1
      Avg 65%   NL 40   

Wave 1      %   reps   sets
   Squat   50%   5   1
   Squat   60%   5   1
   Squat   63%   10   1
   Squat   68%   6   1
   Squat   78%   4   1
   Squat   65%   10   1
   Squat   70%   6   1
   Squat   80%   4   1
      Avg 66%   NL 50   

Wave 2      %   reps   sets
   Squat   50%   8   1
   Squat   58%   15   1
   Squat   63%   10   1
   Squat   68%   8   1
    Squat   60%   15   1
   Squat   65%   10   1
   Squat   70%   8   1
      Avg 61%   NL 74   

Wave 3      %   reps   sets
   Squat   55%   5   1
   Squat   65%   5   1
   Squat   73%   6   1
   Squat   78%   4   1
   Squat   83%   3   1
   Squat   75%   6   1
   Squat   80%   4   1
   Squat   85%   2   1
      Avg 72%   NL 35   

Wave 4      %   reps   sets
   Squat   55%   5   1
   Squat   65%   5   1
   Squat   70%   5   1
   Squat   80%   3   1
   Squat   85%   2   1
    Squat   73%   5   1
   Squat   83%   3   1
   Squat   88%   2   1
      Avg 72%   NL 30   

Wave 5      %   reps   sets
   Squat   50%   5   1
   Squat   60%   5   1
   Squat   70%   4   1
   Squat   80%   3   1
   Squat   83%   2   1
   Squat   88%   1   1
   Squat   83%   3   1
   Squat   85%   2   1
   Squat   90%   1   1
      Avg 70%   NL 26   

I also adjust the reps according to training experience. Here is a rough guide.

Rep Conversions         
   Beginner   Intermediate   Advanced
60%   20   18   15
65%   15   12   10
70%   12   10   8
75%   10   8   6
78%   9   7   5
80%   8   6   4
83%   7   5   3
85%   6   4   2
88%   5   3   2
90%   4   2   1
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on January 27, 2015, 06:33:07 PM
Robert,
I did the deadlift with chains the way you recommended by standing on plates and putting the weights on plates and it worked out well! I will try to post a video in the next few weeks because I think other people may have had the same question before and could benefit from seeing what it looks like.

Can you break down those patterns you posted a little further?

When you say super set Squat 1 and Squat 2 do Squat 65% for a set of 5 and then take no rest and Squat 73% for a set of 5? right away then rest until the next super set?

Which day of the week do you plug those extra stress workouts in? Can you give me an example of how I could fit those in on the new 4 day program?
Would you plug the squat in on the Day 2 where you normally do deadlift variation, bench, deadlift variation?

If you can clarify that a little more that will be real helpful! I'm on Week 4 now of Prep #1 (Adaptation Phase) on the 4 day program. Not sure if it would be too soon to be adding in the extra workouts on the main lifts yet.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 28, 2015, 11:19:18 AM
Got it with the super sets. Do 1 then 2 without rest. Wait a little bit then do the next 1-2 super set.

You can drop those patterns in place of the higher volume defaults. Typically you get one every other week. I just have a few more variations. Boris likes his bench pyramids and squat ladders. I think you can find squat ladders in weeks 1, 3, and 5 in the default 4 day for example.

So instead of doing say:

1) Bench up to 85%
2) Squat Ladder
3) Bench up to 80%

you can put one of those other patterns in place of the ladder.

Or,

1) Deficit Deadlift
2) Bench Pyramid
3) Deadlift from blocks

Try one of the patterns instead of the pyramid.

The regular strength work e.g. 4 sets of 2 at 85% I don't mess with. Only the volume based stuff.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on January 28, 2015, 05:01:05 PM
Interesting stuff Robert. I'll have to explain the Polkov method for extra volume one day as well.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 28, 2015, 05:43:38 PM
Interesting stuff Robert. I'll have to explain the Polkov method for extra volume one day as well.

Yeah, let's hear it. Maybe we can make a new thread otherwise this stuff will be hard to find later.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on January 31, 2015, 06:14:25 PM
I'm currently running your hypertrophy modified version of the 4 day a week program, Robbert. I'm in the 7th week, so far i feel like the higher rep ranges are really benificial. It's pretty tough in the beginning, but i'm really used to it now, for example i had to do 4x5 80% (167,5 kilo) and 4x8 70% (147,5 kilo) squats yesterday. The squats were all really fast, even at the last set.

All the press muscles are getting bigger as well and weirdly enough the higher reps seem to keep me more limber. Last time around on the normal program i was very tight in the hips and upperbody, even with stretching. Now hardly ever stretch.

I didnt mess with the prescriptions a lot, sometimes i would cut back on the assistance if i'm feeling tired. And i did pick a different movement a couple of times, but no big changes. I can't wait untill evaluation and will certainly give you another update by then.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on January 31, 2015, 09:31:52 PM
Thanks for breaking that down Robert. I will give some of those rep schemes a try sometime soon and let you know how it goes.  Rack pulls have been feeling good. Here is a video of my second set of 1 around 95% (Went up to 97%) because 95 felt really light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmpN7Jj6rHY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmpN7Jj6rHY#ws)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 02, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
I'm currently running your hypertrophy modified version of the 4 day a week program, Robbert. I'm in the 7th week, so far i feel like the higher rep ranges are really benificial. It's pretty tough in the beginning, but i'm really used to it now, for example i had to do 4x5 80% (167,5 kilo) and 4x8 70% (147,5 kilo) squats yesterday. The squats were all really fast, even at the last set.

All the press muscles are getting bigger as well and weirdly enough the higher reps seem to keep me more limber. Last time around on the normal program i was very tight in the hips and upperbody, even with stretching. Now hardly ever stretch.

I didnt mess with the prescriptions a lot, sometimes i would cut back on the assistance if i'm feeling tired. And i did pick a different movement a couple of times, but no big changes. I can't wait untill evaluation and will certainly give you another update by then.

Glad to hear it's working out. It'll be interesting when the test week rolls around.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 02, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
Thanks for breaking that down Robert. I will give some of those rep schemes a try sometime soon and let you know how it goes.  Rack pulls have been feeling good. Here is a video of my second set of 1 around 95% (Went up to 97%) because 95 felt really light.

I like that feeling when you get to 95% and it feels light.  8)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on February 05, 2015, 09:23:35 PM
I'm currently on week 4 of the first block and the date for the meet I would like to do just got posted for April 19th (12 weeks starting next week), which weeks should I skip to peak for the meet?

Maybe you could cut one from each remaining block.

Thanks for the suggestion Robert. I'm planning on cutting week 3+4 from accumulation, week 4 from transmutation and week 1 from realization. Do you feel that this is a good way to go?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 09, 2015, 11:03:07 AM
You could do that or you could decide on a week to week basis. I prefer the weekly approach personally.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on February 10, 2015, 06:41:55 AM
You could do that or you could decide on a week to week basis. I prefer the weekly approach personally.

How would you go about deciding which week to drop?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 10, 2015, 03:36:28 PM
 The graphs give you an idea of what you're going to get. As you go through the program you get a feeling for what you need. If the graphs indicate something in your schedule that doesn't immediately match up with what you need you could skip that week.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jjz5 on February 11, 2015, 01:21:57 AM
The graphs give you an idea of what you're going to get. As you go through the program you get a feeling for what you need. If the graphs indicate something in your schedule that doesn't immediately match up with what you need you could skip that week.

I feel ashamed to say I have no idea what I need..lol
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Galactus on February 11, 2015, 04:42:32 PM
Just coming to the end of the first block of this 4 Day Program, feeling good.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on February 12, 2015, 12:27:59 AM
Robert,
I'm not sure if there's an explanation for this in the earlier threads but I'm on 4 day Prep Phase #2, so the 6th total week of the new 4 day CMS program. This Saturday I have "Deadlift with 2 pauses, 5-7cm above and below the knees". I'm assuming I pause right below the knee then transition and bring the bar above the knee and pause, then lockout. Is that correct?

Just the way it was worded with "pause above knee and below knee" made me wonder if I was suppose to pause above the knee then on the way back down pause it at the knee before lowering the bar to the ground.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 12, 2015, 09:51:25 AM
Right, it should be two pauses on the way up.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on February 13, 2015, 08:50:23 PM
Sounds good, we'll see how those go tomorrow.  I just finished the double squat session on Week 2- Prep Phase 2 with 4 x 2 x 85 on round 1 and then 4 x 2 x 80 on round 2. Real tough one. The 85% felt great but the 4 x 2 x 80 on round 2 was grueling. Couldn't have done 3 x 5 x 80 that was on the hypertrophy program so just stuck with the original template on that today.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on February 16, 2015, 03:04:48 AM
Hey Robert,

I'm a bit confused, and am hoping you can help me here.  The 1(x2) + 1/2(x2) =  1 set by 4 reps, correct?  And if so, when I'm asked to 70% 1x3 then 80% 4x2, what does this mean?  It's from Prep 3 Week 3 Day 4.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 16, 2015, 04:34:28 AM
Here's what I see. First three count as 4 reps for one set. Last one is three reps.

1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   50%   4   1
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   60%   4   1
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   70%   4   1
1       + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   75%   3   4
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on February 16, 2015, 10:54:50 PM
Sorry I meant Prep 3 Week 4 - the last day.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 17, 2015, 02:44:56 PM
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   50%   4   1  (one set is 4 reps)
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   60%   4   1  (one set is 4 reps)
1       + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift                   70%   3   1  (one set is 3 reps)
1       + 1/2        Deadlift                   80%   2   4  (one set is 2 reps, do 4 sets)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Gool on February 18, 2015, 06:48:23 PM
Hi guys, ive been doing this for the past week, i wanted to give the high frequency approach a try, my maxes are
SQ 300kg no wraps
BP 175kg
DL 290kg

I do not have access to chains or bands, what should I do with the bench press with chains? Just add more weight?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 20, 2015, 02:07:12 PM
You could try pausing just off your chest and once again a few cm up on the concentric phase of the lift.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: georgeslaraque on February 23, 2015, 11:34:02 PM
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   50%   4   1  (one set is 4 reps)
1(x2) + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift, alternating   60%   4   1  (one set is 4 reps)
1       + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift                   70%   3   1  (one set is 3 reps)
1       + 1/2        Deadlift                   80%   2   4  (one set is 2 reps, do 4 sets)

Many thanks Robert.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: bq on February 25, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
What do you recommend to do after this 4 day program? I was thinking of immediately continuing with your hypertrophy based 4 day program.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on February 26, 2015, 07:55:19 AM
Best thing to do is to start with the general template and make any changes that address your specific needs. The hypertrophy program is an example of how you can tweak the program to place a little more emphasis on something. There may be other areas that need extra attention too.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Stephen Brindle on March 15, 2015, 03:37:55 AM
This post is long overdue but Robert thanks for the recommendation on how to set up the deadlift with chains when doing conventional deads. Here is a video of me doing 75% for doubles while standing on two plates and placing the weight on two plates. I got rowdy at the end because this was my last set and did a quick power shrug- don't mind that. haa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNubvFOTgE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNubvFOTgE#)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on March 15, 2015, 07:17:27 AM
Looks like that worked out nicely.  ;)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: simonzhu on April 09, 2015, 11:18:22 AM
Hey robert, I have a question about the excel spreadsheet for the 4day program, on week 3 monday of the second prep block, the squat percentages seem to be wrong, could you tell me what thecorrect percentages are? sorry if this has already been asked
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Matty_pee on April 09, 2015, 06:07:43 PM
Hey robert, I have a question about the excel spreadsheet for the 4day program, on week 3 monday of the second prep block, the squat percentages seem to be wrong, could you tell me what thecorrect percentages are? sorry if this has already been asked

I have 70% on my copy. This pattern is used a few times through the next couple of blocks.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Mason Garlatti on April 09, 2015, 06:34:36 PM
Question for Robert on the special deadlift variation in week 3 day 4 of prep 2. I see the 4 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift. Does that mean that I perform 4 1/2 (x2) deadlifts, and those are one rep in the set and rep scheme? making it 3 repetitions of 4 + 1/2 (x2) in one set? Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on April 11, 2015, 05:33:05 AM
Question for Robert on the special deadlift variation in week 3 day 4 of prep 2. I see the 4 + 1/2 (x2) Deadlift. Does that mean that I perform 4 1/2 (x2) deadlifts, and those are one rep in the set and rep scheme? making it 3 repetitions of 4 + 1/2 (x2) in one set? Thank you for the clarification.

One full deadlift followed by two half reps counts as three reps overall.

Floor to hips - 1 rep
hips to knees and return to hips - 1 rep
hips to knees and return to hips - 1 rep

Total -  3 reps

So after 3 warm up sets you do 4 sets with your working weight.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on April 11, 2015, 05:35:02 AM
Hey robert, I have a question about the excel spreadsheet for the 4day program, on week 3 monday of the second prep block, the squat percentages seem to be wrong, could you tell me what thecorrect percentages are? sorry if this has already been asked

The squat ladder? Those are 70%.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on May 28, 2015, 11:05:10 AM
Hello. I did 4 day program medium load a while back. I ended up with increasing my bench, squat and deadlift. As well putting on mass. Now I want to jump back in with a new cycle but this time I want to cut back on the comp cycle. I did not benefit from it, as I am not going to compete, just training, would that be fine?

I also wonder If I should jump up to large load or run medium again, it was heavy at the end last time, but the volume was fine.

Regards.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on May 28, 2015, 12:27:12 PM
If you're not competing then just doing the last week of the comp cycle, taking a week off then restarting with new maxes will be fine.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: cheeker9 o on May 28, 2015, 02:12:45 PM
Question for Bench Polkov:
If you Don't competition and Don't do a mock meet at the end of the cycle, where do you get New maxes from?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on May 28, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
If you're not competing then just doing the last week of the comp cycle, taking a week off then restarting with new maxes will be fine.

Great, thank you.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on May 28, 2015, 03:04:57 PM
Why would you not do a mock meet to test maxes? Just treat it like you would the skills test day.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Dahmkooler on May 28, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Is the only purpose of the comp cycle to bring fatigue down to baseline/zero?

Also, if you do your test week immediately after finishing three prep cycles, isn't your fatigue going to be completely masking your true strength, artificially lowering your maxes for the next cycle?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: cheeker9 o on May 28, 2015, 03:29:27 PM
I thought so too.
That's why i got your answer wrong.
So you say if you Don't compete you could shorten the comp cycle to just the last week?
Would you still Use New maxes from test day, to finish prep 3, or would time be to short to Adapt to let's say a mock meet?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on June 06, 2015, 12:49:18 PM
I have bought a Super ram (same thing as slingshot), and I am going to replace board press and bench press with chains with it. But I am confused about how much more weight I should add. Should I add 10-15% more weight on both the replaced exercises, as the Super ram would give me more power.

Example:
Instead of 90kg board press I do 100-105kg with super ram.
Instead of 100kg bench press with chains(10-20kg) I do 120-125kg with the super ram?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on June 06, 2015, 04:26:09 PM
I find that at least a good 10% over your raw bench %s is need for slingshot but it might differ for other lifts depending on the strength of your lockout. I personally use pretty similar weights from board to slingshot but I always pause the bar on my chest to reduce the rebound. If I were to bounce it I could go probably 5-10% heavier.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: s.p.4 on June 08, 2015, 01:06:21 PM
I want to do this program as preparation for my first competition, but as I'm currently planning ahead I realized that after my vacation I will have 23 weeks left until the competition. Are there any recommendations for a short preparation "cycle"?

I'm coming off 3day/week (and lower volume) programs, so I thought that there could be a benefit in getting used to the 4day/week layout with higher volume before i start the program, but as I have a rather small time frame I'm unsure what to do and would be thankful for any advice!

thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Penguinsaurus on June 14, 2015, 10:52:09 AM
At the moment Im running the 3day program, but after that I want to try the 4 day one.
I noticed that the program has exercises that fix leaning forward in squat which I dont have.
I mostly struggle getting out of the bottom in the squat. wanted to ask what exercises to do and replace with to help getting out of the bottom in the squat.
 so far thought about pause at bottom squats instead pausing at middle
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: maccaz on June 16, 2015, 09:07:45 AM
i dont have any competitions planned and am currently in week 2 of roberts hypertrophy modified sheiko 4 day program.

With no competitions should I go like:

4 day prep
4 day pre (2)
4 day prep (3) - reset maxes in week 2 here
then start again with 4 day prep and the new maxes after week 4 of 4day prep (3)

so a recycling 3 block program with no comp peak?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on June 16, 2015, 12:52:41 PM
You could do that or do an abbreviated comp cycle (week 1 and final week) after every 2 or 3 blocks. You will get a more accurate max test with the volume taper if you've been running long enough cycles. And once you're more used to the training you should be able to make small adjustments between cycles if a lift becomes too easy, this will allow longer training cycles (4-5 blocks even, though they will fucking hurt).
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: maccaz on June 18, 2015, 04:52:19 AM
thanks. by abbreviated comp cycle, would you say do week 1 of the comp cycle, followed by week 4 of the comp cycle, then test maxes on the "comp" day?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on June 18, 2015, 09:45:34 AM
Yeah, and skip the skills test on week 1 of the cycle too if you're not doing a comp... actually you may as well do week 2 and 4.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: chrippaz on June 23, 2015, 02:06:43 AM
I have one question about preperatory block 2, week 2, day 4 (or 6).

In the excel file this is

Deadlift 2 pause above and below knees
Incline shoulder press
Dips
Lats muscles

In the app it is

Deadlift up to knees
Incline bench press
Dips
Deadlift from blocks
Leg press
Abs

Is there some reason this is different? I did the app version and the deadlift from blocks felt really heavy. 4 sets 3 reps on 95%. I never saw this heavy, usually deadlift from blocks on 95% is 3 sets 1 repetition.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on June 23, 2015, 12:50:10 PM
I have one question about preperatory block 2, week 2, day 4 (or 6).

In the excel file this is

Deadlift 2 pause above and below knees
Incline shoulder press
Dips
Lats muscles

In the app it is

Deadlift up to knees
Incline bench press
Dips
Deadlift from blocks
Leg press
Abs

Is there some reason this is different? I did the app version and the deadlift from blocks felt really heavy. 4 sets 3 reps on 95%. I never saw this heavy, usually deadlift from blocks on 95% is 3 sets 1 repetition.

That is the large load version of the day. Yours should be:
Deadlift 2 pause above and below knees
Incline shoulder press
Dips
Lats muscles
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: chrippaz on June 23, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
Thank you for answering! Yes you are right in the app the medium load and large load program is same on this day.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: cheeker9 o on June 23, 2015, 02:45:19 PM
I have the Android app,
And advanced Medium load prep 2 day 4
is the same Problem like mentioned above, It's the same day as in the large load version. Is this a mistake?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on June 23, 2015, 05:20:03 PM
I have the Android app,
And advanced Medium load prep 2 day 4
is the same Problem like mentioned above, It's the same day as in the large load version. Is this a mistake?

Yes  :-[

Thanks for proofreading.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on June 24, 2015, 08:49:39 AM
Poor Rob lol  :P
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: maranmaran on June 25, 2015, 08:41:32 PM
Sry for spamming but my search on forum didn't yield any satisfiying results so don't flame me away immediately :D

So after greg nuckols average to savage I'm really used on high volume, which by looking at sheiko calculations was bigger and thinking of going for sheiko in pursuit of new gains

So my question is since I don't have chains/bands/boards to use in gym, I'll just do regular deadlifts but with how much deviation I'm thinking 5-10% increase decrease depending on the setup (box or chains or whatever it's wanted), I'm also in search of substitute for leg press I'm not very fond of it, more squats?(High bar/front) more lunges ?

What about back muscles volume I'm thinking of increasing frequency up to 3x a week of pumping some high rep sets for upper back.

My bench is fine all I really want is massive wheels so where and how do i safely add in volume - as in more squats or more lunges and stuff like that. Maybe amrap sets of high bar 2x a week ...
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Penguinsaurus on July 17, 2015, 07:41:14 PM
Hello
Im a young athlete 17 years old and compete at the 100kg class
My raw total is 535kg without knee wraps.
Next week I check maxes after doing the 3 day program.

Wanted to be sure if I should start the 4 day program for my next meet which is in December(exactly 20 weeks).

Also I noticed the first 4 weeks of the program is for people who lean forward in the squat which doesnt happen to me.
Usually I get stuck right after getting up from the bottom of the squat.
I wanted to ask what exercises you recommend me to change to make it easier to get out of the bottom of the squat.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Gool on July 18, 2015, 10:31:08 PM
How would someone approach this program with a competition in 12 weeks? I'm having nationals on august 23 and south-americans at the end of november - Should I just skip the first 4 weeks?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on July 19, 2015, 11:54:51 AM
How would someone approach this program with a competition in 12 weeks? I'm having nationals on august 23 and south-americans at the end of november - Should I just skip the first 4 weeks?

Jumping straight into phase 2 doesnt seem like a good idea to me. Personally i found the first phase necessary if you are not used to this type of training or if you just did the competition phase + a competition. I would rather drop the 3th phase (transmutation) in your case.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Deadliftdouche on July 19, 2015, 04:19:05 PM
Hi guys!

I started the 4-day program and I liked it but can I do all the accessory in a 5th day?

Then in the 4th, where I have only the deadlift, can I do extra volume of squat and bench? Maybe some work into the 70% with low rep, only to work further more on the technique and volume? I don't have problem to sustain the amount of volume..
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on July 20, 2015, 12:25:03 PM
How would someone approach this program with a competition in 12 weeks? I'm having nationals on august 23 and south-americans at the end of november - Should I just skip the first 4 weeks?

Don't fully drop any phase, rather drop a week out of each.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Deadliftdouche on July 20, 2015, 05:38:46 PM
No one loves me :(
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on July 20, 2015, 05:59:37 PM
Hi guys!

I started the 4-day program and I liked it but can I do all the accessory in a 5th day?

Then in the 4th, where I have only the deadlift, can I do extra volume of squat and bench? Maybe some work into the 70% with low rep, only to work further more on the technique and volume? I don't have problem to sustain the amount of volume..

Why not do the additional squat and bench volume on any squat or bench days?

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Deadliftdouche on July 20, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
Why not do the additional squat and bench volume on any squat or bench days?


Thank you for the reply!

Ok. So my idea now is simply to add a 5-10% more volume on monthly volume and add some sets on the working sets of the day. Eg.

Prep 2 CMS/MS Week 1 Day 1 Bench
         Reps x Sets
50%    5x1
60%   4x1
70%   3x1
80%   3x4

My idea is like this:

         Reps x Sets
50%    5x1
60%   4x1
70%   3x1
80%   3x6

And for the dedicated hypertrophy day? So during the week I only do the main movements ( less time in the gym ) and then in weedend I do assistance work like lats, abs, traps, arms etc.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: maranmaran on July 23, 2015, 04:43:54 PM
Plokov recommended on reddit 4day/week program if you can train 4 times/week it says advanced in app but should i just ignore it, if I'm coming off high volume training with 140/115/160 kg maxes @70kg do you recommend small/med/large load 4day in app ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on July 23, 2015, 05:12:55 PM
Plokov recommended on reddit 4day/week program if you can train 4 times/week it says advanced in app but should i just ignore it, if I'm coming off high volume training with 140/115/160 kg maxes @70kg do you recommend small/med/large load 4day in app ?

There are 4 day beginner and intermediate cycles as well.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: maranmaran on July 23, 2015, 06:51:10 PM
Plokov recommended on reddit 4day/week program if you can train 4 times/week it says advanced in app but should i just ignore it, if I'm coming off high volume training with 140/115/160 kg maxes @70kg do you recommend small/med/large load 4day in app ?

There are 4 day beginner and intermediate cycles as well.

Am I blind :p? Because on the android app only Advanced routines at the end of list in "programs" have the days per week marked as 4
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: vsvs on August 02, 2015, 10:28:08 AM
1. I've done the 'old' sheiko programs ..#29, 37 (all 3 day) usually w/ 105-110% of my bench max for the input.  Still hold true for this?
2. On days with flat benching twice, should I replace the second session with slingshot bench also, or leave it as-is?
3. How much extra % weight to use if using a Slingshot (original) for bench and bench w/ board?
4. Is there something I can replace deadlift off box with, and how would I program that? Im weakest off the floor. 
5.  Dont have reverse hyper, --> ?

stats; 80kg, push-pull only; 160kg bench, 265kg deadlift, raw lifter
Thank you
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jsantana on August 11, 2015, 07:45:18 AM
for the 4 day program can i change the days to monday tuesday thursday friday? or is it best to do it on the recommended days
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on August 11, 2015, 06:38:09 PM
1. I've done the 'old' sheiko programs ..#29, 37 (all 3 day) usually w/ 105-110% of my bench max for the input.  Still hold true for this?
2. On days with flat benching twice, should I replace the second session with slingshot bench also, or leave it as-is?
3. How much extra % weight to use if using a Slingshot (original) for bench and bench w/ board?
4. Is there something I can replace deadlift off box with, and how would I program that? Im weakest off the floor. 
5.  Dont have reverse hyper, --> ?

stats; 80kg, push-pull only; 160kg bench, 265kg deadlift, raw lifter
Thank you

Most of these questions have been answered before. But, some short answers:
Would recommend to use 100 % and not 105 or 110 % in any of the programs.
Only replace second round with. slingshot if it strengths a weakness or has a value to you/your goal. Say leave it as it is or use it with care.
How much weight/% depends on board height amongst other things.
If not deadlift of floor - then deadlift from pins or plates? If you are weak of the floor - practice that. Deadlift to the knees, deadlift w. pause at knees (and then continue pull), deadlift w. chains, deficit deadlift are good exercises to those who are weak of the floor.
Instead of reverse hyper => could be GHR, GMs (seated or standing) or other.
Good stats  :)


for the 4 day program can i change the days to monday tuesday thursday friday? or is it best to do it on the recommended days

Yes, you can do that. Best to do recommended days, since you get more optimal rest and pause between days but mon/tue/thur/fri works - just pay attention to rest/nutrition.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: jsantana on August 11, 2015, 10:38:51 PM
thanks for the response  appreciate it
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Penguinsaurus on August 13, 2015, 09:35:25 PM
I may need to cut one week off the program because I might go to a another competition 1 week earlier from the one I planned to.
Right now Im at 4day prep 1, week 3.
Any suggestion which week I should cut off the upcoming weeks\months of training.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: stt816 on August 13, 2015, 09:43:32 PM
Say you did get 105% on the test day, what should you try for after that set 107.5% or 110%?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on August 14, 2015, 01:38:20 PM
Say you did get 105% on the test day, what should you try for after that set 107.5% or 110%?

I wouldnt get too hung up on the 105%. Just do the 100% first and think for yourself what seems plausibel to add. If you think you can do 10 kilo more, just add 10 kilo. If you think 2,5 would be more realistic, add 2,5. If you do hit the 105%, use the same approach. Percentages are great for training, for maxing out you need to rely on your own judgement.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: thatberikki on September 13, 2015, 10:07:57 AM
One more question about the selection of exercises presented. Are we to understand Incline Shoulder Press to mean a standing shoulder press or an incline press? A search-replace gone bad? =)

It's an incline bench press. But he doesn't like to count it as a bench press.

The program calls for "incline bench press" in Week 1 - Day 4 (Sat) but every other instance it's called "incline shoulder press". I think the naming should be consistent in the excel sheet/app. It led me to believe that they were separate exercises.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 13, 2015, 12:57:39 PM
I asked about this and he said they are in fact different exercises. The difference in the angle of the bench. One is closer to vertical and one horizontal.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: thatberikki on September 14, 2015, 10:36:14 AM
I asked about this and he said they are in fact different exercises. The difference in the angle of the bench. One is closer to vertical and one horizontal.
Any idea what the actual angle should be for each? In the video for incline bench on the app, it's already pretty high. I'd say it's around 60 degrees. I guess the incline shoulder is much closer to an actual seated shoulder press than a bench press at all.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: David Pues on September 14, 2015, 11:29:10 AM
I asked about this and he said they are in fact different exercises. The difference in the angle of the bench. One is closer to vertical and one horizontal.
Any idea what the actual angle should be for each? In the video for incline bench on the app, it's already pretty high. I'd say it's around 60 degrees. I guess the incline shoulder is much closer to an actual seated shoulder press than a bench press at all.
I'm doing the incline bench at 30 degrees, and the incline shoulder press at 60 degrees.
Would be good to get some confirmation from the experts.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on September 14, 2015, 03:18:25 PM
I asked about this and he said they are in fact different exercises. The difference in the angle of the bench. One is closer to vertical and one horizontal.
Any idea what the actual angle should be for each? In the video for incline bench on the app, it's already pretty high. I'd say it's around 60 degrees. I guess the incline shoulder is much closer to an actual seated shoulder press than a bench press at all.
I'm doing the incline bench at 30 degrees, and the incline shoulder press at 60 degrees.
Would be good to get some confirmation from the experts.

30 and 60 would be my thoughts on that as well.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Chreiz on September 15, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
I asked about this and he said they are in fact different exercises. The difference in the angle of the bench. One is closer to vertical and one horizontal.
Any idea what the actual angle should be for each? In the video for incline bench on the app, it's already pretty high. I'd say it's around 60 degrees. I guess the incline shoulder is much closer to an actual seated shoulder press than a bench press at all.
I'm doing the incline bench at 30 degrees, and the incline shoulder press at 60 degrees.
Would be good to get some confirmation from the experts.

I think my angle is more like 75 degrees. I use one 'click' away from upright position. Boris never made a complaint about this angle at least.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: thatberikki on September 16, 2015, 07:58:15 AM
I'll probably use 30 for incline bench and 60 for incline shoulder from now on. I already do standing DB press for delts and I think one completely vertical press is enough. I like the idea of making the incline shoulder less vertical.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Lugh on September 17, 2015, 06:58:10 AM
My gym is fairly barebones. We've got basic kettlebells, a safety squat bar, straight bars, straight benches, straight weight and not much else.

Most programs seem to feature exercises like leg press or incline press. What can I substitute these for?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on September 17, 2015, 01:27:42 PM
Hey guys. I have some pain in infraspinatus from benching. So I thought I should switch the bench for overhead press 1-2 season to get the problem under control. I have no pain with pressing over head. Good idea?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: kevin.cann on September 18, 2015, 05:37:21 PM
Bad idea switching to ohp. The shoulder joint is most stable with hands by side and least stable overhead. Infraspinatus helps pull the humerus down into the joint when overhead. If it can't do its job the humerus will have superiormigration and smash into other tissues like the labrum which holds the biceps tendon. Try some floor press and see how that feels.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on September 22, 2015, 01:24:12 PM
Bad idea switching to ohp. The shoulder joint is most stable with hands by side and least stable overhead. Infraspinatus helps pull the humerus down into the joint when overhead. If it can't do its job the humerus will have superiormigration and smash into other tissues like the labrum which holds the biceps tendon. Try some floor press and see how that feels.

Felt better with floor press. Will switch to that till the problem is solved. Thank you for the reply!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Kaldarius on October 28, 2015, 07:00:57 PM
Just had a quick question RE: Prep 3 Week 4 Monday. It says Decline bench press.

This hasn't been used anywhere else in the routine. Is there a specific 'quality' you want to work with this i.e. targeting chest or triceps? I've tried Decline bench in the past but don't find much value in it.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on October 30, 2015, 04:47:22 PM
Just had a quick question RE: Prep 3 Week 4 Monday. It says Decline bench press.

This hasn't been used anywhere else in the routine. Is there a specific 'quality' you want to work with this i.e. targeting chest or triceps? I've tried Decline bench in the past but don't find much value in it.

If it doesn't work for you switch it for something that does.  ;)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on October 31, 2015, 06:44:52 AM
My gym is fairly barebones. We've got basic kettlebells, a safety squat bar, straight bars, straight benches, straight weight and not much else.

Most programs seem to feature exercises like leg press or incline press. What can I substitute these for?

Anything quad dominant can replace the leg press: split squats, sissy squats, maybe front squats.

Incline press can be subbed with any other full rom press: ultra-wide-grip bench, db presses, incline and decline bench can also be simulated by raising up one end of a straight bench on something stable (though I would make sure you had a spotter).
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Bench Polkov on October 31, 2015, 06:46:34 AM
Just had a quick question RE: Prep 3 Week 4 Monday. It says Decline bench press.

This hasn't been used anywhere else in the routine. Is there a specific 'quality' you want to work with this i.e. targeting chest or triceps? I've tried Decline bench in the past but don't find much value in it.

What Rob said. Just pick something else for chest development. I prefer lots of DB bench myself.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: meaantje on November 22, 2015, 11:56:14 PM
What i was wondering was why the squat volume usualy is lower in the 4 day program than the 3 day program. It would make sense with the higher deadlift volume. Im used to a training aproach with higher squat volume and less deadlift volume and this has always been good for my squat.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Toni on December 09, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
Hello Sheiko fellows,

I just did the first max attempts on Medium load 4 day hypertrophy program. prep cycle 3/week 2

I increased my squat with 15kg and my deadlift with 10kg. I´m sure i have 5kg more in squat and 10kg more in the deadlift.
My Benchpress has not increased.
Even though I have gotten stronger in my pressing assistance exercises and more muscular.
I had some shoulder problems which had me take it easy with the bench for a while. I might post a video here soo someone could take a look at my bench form.

Should I now increase my squat and deadlift? The Sheiko app as already made the increase. Think I have read that Sheiko recommends that you don´t increase your maxes to much. But maybe it is not that much of an increase in my lifts?

I also wondering if I should keep on going, four more weeks, to the next max attempts in the comp cycle?  Or if I should restart the program after this week in prep cycle 3?

Squat: 160 to 175kg (I have 5kg more)
Deadlift: 180 to 190kg ( I have 10kg more)
Bench: 100-105kg no increase  :(
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Kaldarius on December 21, 2015, 03:21:53 PM
Hi just completed my run of the 4 day program:

I ran regular 4 day for Deadlift and Squat. Roberts 4 day for Bench. Started the program just after finishing a cut.
Also I ended the program early on week 2 Comp phase as I am not peaking for a meet.

All time PBs @ 78kg: B: 117.5kg, S: 135kg, D: 187.5kg

Sheiko Routine:

BW: Start 68.8kg to Finish 71.7kg
Sheiko Inflated Maxes: B: 118kg, S: 130kg, D: 200kg

Bench:
Start: 105kg, Skills test 1: 107.5kg, Skills test 2: 110kg
https://www.instagram.com/p/_U2WLGBSET/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/_U2WLGBSET/)
Squat:
Start: 120kg, Skills test 1: 130kg, Skills test 2: 127.5kg
https://www.instagram.com/p/_U2XJ7hSEV/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/_U2XJ7hSEV/)
Deadlift:
Start: 187.5kg, Skills test 1: 190kg, Skills test 2: 192.5kg
https://www.instagram.com/p/_U3IzfhSFp/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/_U3IzfhSFp/)

Weaknesses:

Bench - Lower body tightness, Lockout strength
Fix: Focus on Set up, Progress CGBP/tricep variations, bring back up OHP strength
Squat - Forward lean out of the hole
Fix: Front Squat, Paused Squat, Leg Pressing
Deadlift - Need to improve set up (lock in shoulders)
Fix: Technique work

Gratful for any feedback!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: EN85 on December 25, 2015, 06:56:41 PM
Dont use inflated maxes.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uhbhu on December 31, 2015, 07:35:42 PM
Have a question about the med. adv. programme regarding customization. My main (sumo) deadlift weakness is the fact that I can't maintain position off the floor near max loads. In training things like deadlift + pause above knees feel almost trivial, and block pulls are quite easy too. I've ended up subbing dl + pause above knees, dl + chains and block pulls with more work near the floor (pause right off floor, deficits, just regular pulls sometimes). Is it ok to really hammer my weak point and not do a lot of lockout overload at all?

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 01, 2016, 05:58:41 AM
Have a question about the med. adv. programme regarding customization. My main (sumo) deadlift weakness is the fact that I can't maintain position off the floor near max loads. In training things like deadlift + pause above knees feel almost trivial, and block pulls are quite easy too. I've ended up subbing dl + pause above knees, dl + chains and block pulls with more work near the floor (pause right off floor, deficits, just regular pulls sometimes). Is it ok to really hammer my weak point and not do a lot of lockout overload at all?

By all means, hammer your weak point. But don't forget that you are trying to perfect the whole lift and not just a portion of it. So keep a nice balance between corrective exercises and the competition lift.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uhbhu on January 02, 2016, 01:34:30 PM
By all means, hammer your weak point. But don't forget that you are trying to perfect the whole lift and not just a portion of it. So keep a nice balance between corrective exercises and the competition lift.
Okay thanks, and yeah I'll still be doing plenty of the competition lift just less of the top of the lift partials.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 02, 2016, 05:09:52 PM
By all means, hammer your weak point. But don't forget that you are trying to perfect the whole lift and not just a portion of it. So keep a nice balance between corrective exercises and the competition lift.
Okay thanks, and yeah I'll still be doing plenty of the competition lift just less of the top of the lift partials.

Makes sense. Keep us updated on how it goes.  ;)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: power gym on January 08, 2016, 11:53:23 PM
this program is the same of app for android medium load advaced
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: tchapman91 on January 15, 2016, 06:22:47 AM
I currently run the advanced medium load program on the app. How would you guys split up running 4 days a week monday-Friday? Would it be acceptable/optimal for me to squat/bench on Monday, dead/bench on Tuesday, squat/bench on Thursday and dead/bench on Friday? Thanks in advance for any helpful replies. GOD bless.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 15, 2016, 08:57:06 AM
That has been done successfully by many people. You can do it that way if you have to.

Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Zon on January 24, 2016, 08:41:52 PM
I am Class II lifter would you recommend me running this or 3 day split ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 25, 2016, 03:35:14 PM
If you don't have any experience running Sheiko programs the 3-day programs are a better start.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Zon on January 26, 2016, 01:56:16 AM
If you don't have any experience running Sheiko programs the 3-day programs are a better start.

I dont have any experience under Sheiko. I also got competition in around 20 / 21 weeks so how would you run 3day version to peak?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 26, 2016, 04:28:47 AM
Count backwards from your comp day and start the program wherever today lines up. Since the 3-day is shorter than that you can run the program back to back. When doing that skip the first comp period and do only one at the end.

For example

Prep Cycle 1
Prep Cycle 2
Prep Cycle 1
Prep Cycle 2
Comp Cycle
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Zon on January 26, 2016, 06:53:22 PM
Count backwards from your comp day and start the program wherever today lines up. Since the 3-day is shorter than that you can run the program back to back. When doing that skip the first comp period and do only one at the end.

For example

Prep Cycle 1
Prep Cycle 2
Prep Cycle 1
Prep Cycle 2
Comp Cycle

For someone using spreadsheets would that be #37v2 , #31,#37v2,#31 and then #32v2 ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 27, 2016, 06:52:36 PM
Yup, that'll work.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Zon on January 28, 2016, 02:40:34 PM
Yup, that'll work.

Robert sorry to bother you again but we ended up moving meet from 20 weeks to 16 weeks which cycle should I cut out from those 5 few ?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 28, 2016, 04:01:04 PM
In that case do:

32v2
32v2
31
32v2
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Zon on January 28, 2016, 07:06:51 PM
In that case do:

32v2
32v2
31
32v2

Thank you once again. I also decided I will buy app to support Boris.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on January 29, 2016, 06:41:00 PM
No problem.  ;)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: LucasM on February 27, 2016, 07:29:52 AM
Hi all, what is the general result of the 100% day on the advanced large load comp cycle on week 1 day 2? Does this day serve a similar purpose to the Intermediate comp cycle week 1 skills test? Would like people's thoughts on how the advanced large load skill test went - thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: yeachan153 on March 04, 2016, 12:15:26 AM
Hi Robert, I know coach Sheiko recommends training 4 days a week even to intermediates. On the large volume 3 day intermediate programs, theres the accumulation, transmutation and peaking block for a total of 12 weeks. At the moment, I am making great progress on the 3-day program but I do want to take up the 4 day option for technical development. However, as the four day option includes a preparatory phase, and lengthens the other phases, new maxes are peaked and tested only once every 20 weeks. As an intermediate, I feel I can definately progress faster than this as I am doing on the 12 week three day program. What your thoughts on removing the preparatory cycle and moving on to the accumulation phase straight away so the program becomes 16 weeks in total? I feel that this cycle is mainly to build technique and restore current adaptation reserves
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: victorE on March 04, 2016, 04:59:50 PM
@Yeachan
I think this would be alright, but what you could do instead is add in your own skills test at the end of cycle 1. Here's how I would do it.
PREP CYCLE 1
FIRST WEEK OF CYCLE 2 (will be repeated after skills test)
SKILLS TEST DAY
CYCLE 2
CYCLE 3
COMP CYCLE
That's my 2 cents  :)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: yeachan153 on March 04, 2016, 11:03:17 PM
@Yeachan
I think this would be alright, but what you could do instead is add in your own skills test at the end of cycle 1. Here's how I would do it.
PREP CYCLE 1
FIRST WEEK OF CYCLE 2 (will be repeated after skills test)
SKILLS TEST DAY
CYCLE 2
CYCLE 3
COMP CYCLE
That's my 2 cents  :)
Thanks for sharing your idea. Have you tried it this way before? As you know prep cycle 1 has relatively low volume compared to every other cycle (even the intermediates). I must admit I am a bit sceptical whether a skills test so early after 4 weeks of prep 1 would show any improvement over my previous tested results.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: 1adad1 on March 13, 2016, 11:51:51 PM
Hi guys,

Does anybody have the 4 day small load and medium load from IOS app, to download?

I would by very thankful.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Matthijs on May 04, 2016, 07:36:08 PM
Hello everyone, I would appreciate some help on planning out my training the next three months. Around the 8th of august, I will be going into an introduction program for my studies which will take me out of the gym for at least a good week. Sleep will most likely be limited, recovery will be shit and I will be unable to train.

My stats: Currently 85kg BW (I lift <83kg), 200sq/110b/~220dl (will test deadlift on friday). I have just completed the intermediate medium load preparation 1 and 2, and am currently in the test week of competition cycle. I have two options that I would like help deciding on. I intend to maintain my bodyweight the coming period, or slightly drop down. I use the app for Android.

Option 1:
Intermediate medium load preparation cycle 1
Intermediate medium load preparation cycle 2
Intermediate medium load competition cycle 1, week 1 only
Intermediate medium load preparation cycle 1
Intermediate medium preparation load cycle 2
Intermediate medium load competition cycle 1

Option 2:
Intermediate medium load preparation cycle 1
Intermediate medium load preparation cycle 2
Intermediate medium load competition cycle 1, week 1 only
Advanced medium load preparation cycle 1
Advanced medium preparation load cycle 2
Advanced medium preparation load cycle 3, Week 1 and 2

The weigh off is basically between going for a 4 day program, which I feel my deadlift needs at this point, or rounding off the training with a proper competition cycle.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Edit:

Decided to move to the 4 day program after consulting with trainingpartners and reading through the forum properly.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: hammertime on June 07, 2016, 10:38:50 PM
Good choice. 


I do Monday,Tuesday,Thursday,Friday since I cannot do Saturday. 


I have no issue with recovery, I finished prep I and II so far
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Air100 on June 09, 2016, 05:10:21 PM

I have been training with the iPhone app since February.
Now it's four weeks left to the competition but because of illness, I have six weeks left of the program...

1 week left of "prep cycle 3" and
5 weeks left of "comp cycle"

What week should I ignore/skip?

Competition routine 's is 5 weeks.
Should I jump into the week 2 ?


But I see that Week 1 in "comp cycle" have a max test,  I like that ...

Thanks
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Tjp on August 06, 2016, 12:50:25 AM
 I'm using the iPhone app and currently following Advanced Medium Load program. Today my workout was Prep cycle II, Week 3, Day 3.

According to the app bench press with chains should be:
50% 5 reps x 1 set
60% 4 reps x 1 set
70% 3 reps x 2 sets
80% 3 reps x 6 sets, this was too heavy for me with two 8kg chains.

I checked 4 day program spreadsheet and according it bench with chains should have been:
50% 4 reps x 1 set
60% 4 reps x 1 set   
70% 4 reps x 5 sets

Is there mistake in the app?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 06, 2016, 05:41:55 AM
I'm using the iPhone app and currently following Advanced Medium Load program. Today my workout was Prep cycle II, Week 3, Day 3.

According to the app bench press with chains should be:
50% 5 reps x 1 set
60% 4 reps x 1 set
70% 3 reps x 2 sets
80% 3 reps x 6 sets, this was too heavy for me with two 8kg chains.

I checked 4 day program spreadsheet and according it bench with chains should have been:
50% 4 reps x 1 set
60% 4 reps x 1 set   
70% 4 reps x 5 sets

Is there mistake in the app?

Yeah, that's a mistake. Fixed. An update is coming soon.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uhbhu on August 23, 2016, 12:00:27 AM
How would running this with Prep Cycle 1 removed be? I have 3months between meets most of the year so running the full one isn't really an option for the majority of the year.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Robert Frederick on August 24, 2016, 05:29:03 AM
It's ok just to start with the second cycle if that's all the time you have.
Title: q
Post by: Lundstedt on August 24, 2016, 01:54:22 PM
First of all, great program! This is my second Sheiko program, I did the 3 day >80kg before and increased squat and deadlift with 5%. Nothing in bench due to a shoulder injury that is still active.

My question is why there is such little work with pure deadlifts in the program (maybe this has been asked before). I try to theorize this myself and what I think is going on is that since the program is high volume as it is, to not completely burn yourself out the deadlifts are of an alternative nature to reduce the fatigue on muscles and CNS but still maintain a proper amount of deadlift related movements.

Is this somewhat correct or am I wrong?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Malatesta on October 27, 2016, 12:25:45 AM
Hi,

I accomplished the 4days/week program so I'd like to give you my feedbacks :

I did the four months and then a competition.

The day on the meet I was sick, but I squatted +20kilos compared to before Sheiko.

For bench I didn't PRed the day of the meet but a few weeks earlier the sheiko program was asking for some singles so I did a new PR : I gained 10kilos on the bench.

Same for the Deadlift : to the gym, I gained 15 kilos.

my total at the meet was 618 kilos at -83.

So, I <3 Sheiko ;)

Edit : I'd like to add, I respected the program, but I just overestimated a little bit my 1rms for squat and bench (mostly on bench). And every few weeks I was increasing the 1rms for a few kilos, before the program asking it. I never failed a rep except on a few particular days feeling bad or tired for some reasons. but should you did it ? It depends on what you can handle, your activities outside of the gym, if you rest enough, sleep well,...
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on October 27, 2016, 03:58:50 PM
Well done Malatesta!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: victorE on January 30, 2017, 05:18:41 PM
Hey everyone, it's been a while since i've signed in, but everything is going well  :) :)

Over the past 8 months or so the 4 day medium load program has gotten me (In pounds and kilos)
335->415 squat   (152 -> 188 )
205-> 250 bench (93  -> 114)
440 -> 540 deadlift (200 -> 245)

I'm currently starting week 2 of the comp cycle, getting ready for a meet this February.
Goals are a 425 squat, 255 bench and 555 deadlift.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Scodina on February 13, 2017, 11:23:32 AM
Ciao! I bought the App. How I have to choose a small load or medium or large load program?
For example I'm 35 years old, my bodyweight is 69 kilos and my total is 430 kg. thank you
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: URBAN MUR on February 14, 2017, 11:21:47 AM
Hi, I wonder if the programs can also be found in excel sheets or only in the apps? Thank you.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 14, 2017, 01:25:54 PM
Hi, I wonder if the programs can also be found in excel sheets or only in the apps? Thank you.

Which program are you thinking of specifically? All the programs are in the app now, because it can tailor it to one persons needs, whereas the spreadsheets could not.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: URBAN MUR on February 14, 2017, 01:59:37 PM
Quote
Which program are you thinking of specifically? All the programs are in the app now, because it can tailor it to one persons needs, whereas the spreadsheets could not.

I was looking for any possible programs. I just like to use excel files on computer, that is all. 
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 14, 2017, 03:07:05 PM
Quote
Which program are you thinking of specifically? All the programs are in the app now, because it can tailor it to one persons needs, whereas the spreadsheets could not.

I was looking for any possible programs. I just like to use excel files on computer, that is all.

The spreadsheets are outdated. New programs are coming to the app and eventually the app will just create an individualized weekly program for one, which the spreadsheets could never do.

That said, I still have have the CMS spreadsheet and I can send it to you.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Scodina on February 16, 2017, 01:07:36 PM
Hello! I'm doing advanced large load program and I've noticed that there arent squat pyramid, why? can I add it once a week? and what squat train can I change with this one? Thank you
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Scodina on February 16, 2017, 02:30:07 PM
Ciao, in squat from bottom of pins, how high must be the pins? I have to start below, above or at the parallel?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 16, 2017, 04:24:34 PM
Ciao, in squat from bottom of pins, how high must be the pins? I have to start below, above or at the parallel?

Which percentage does it say?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: victorE on February 16, 2017, 08:03:52 PM
Did my comp cycle skills tests
results were
425 squat
255 bench
560 deadlift
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Leggio on February 20, 2017, 06:47:51 AM
Hi All,

1. I'm looking ahead at My Advanced, Medium Load Comp Cycle. On Week 2, Days 2 and 3, the app is showing me to make two attempts in a row at 100% of my 1RM for all of the three lifts. So it shows:

90% x 1
95% x 1
100% x 1
100% x 1

I just want to make sure this is accurate, and that I should be doing my 1RM two times in a row.

2. Since the last update, under the options page, it looks like the number of lifts is now inaccurate. Under Advanced it now shows:

Medium Load Prep Cycle 1:
897 lifts

Medium Load Prep Cycle 2:
1 lifts

Medium Load Prep Cycle 3:
1 lifts

Medium Load Comp Cycle:
561 lifts


I just wanted to make sure this wouldn't affect the charts. Thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dmeita on February 23, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
I'm trying to download the program (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371 (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371)) but the link is broken, and no new link is in the main post.

Any idea?
Where can I download it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 23, 2017, 07:47:31 PM
I'm trying to download the program ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url] ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url])) but the link is broken, and no new link is in the main post.

Any idea?
Where can I download it?

Thanks!


I can only see a file that are deleted from the server. Can you tell me which file/program you are trying to download?
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dmeita on February 25, 2017, 11:27:32 AM
I'm trying to download the program ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url] ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url])) but the link is broken, and no new link is in the main post.

Any idea?
Where can I download it?

Thanks!


I can only see a file that are deleted from the server. Can you tell me which file/program you are trying to download?


The one from this post/thread (the CSM, MS & MSIC 4 day programs).
This was the link I had saved a few months ago.
But I didn't download it by then. Now, I cannot download it or find a download link in the first post of this thread.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 25, 2017, 12:30:24 PM
I'm trying to download the program ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url] ([url]http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=78625876097939163371[/url])) but the link is broken, and no new link is in the main post.

Any idea?
Where can I download it?

Thanks!


I can only see a file that are deleted from the server. Can you tell me which file/program you are trying to download?


The one from this post/thread (the CSM, MS & MSIC 4 day programs).
This was the link I had saved a few months ago.
But I didn't download it by then. Now, I cannot download it or find a download link in the first post of this thread.


I ask because there were two programs, the 4 day and Roberts hypertrophy mod.

for the former, which you are asking for, go to page 22 of this thread.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dmeita on February 26, 2017, 10:39:37 AM
I ask because there were two programs, the 4 day and Roberts hypertrophy mod.

for the former, which you are asking for, go to page 22 of this thread.


I've only found two external links in the whole Thread.
This - http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041 (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041) That isn't actually an external link, but neither a full routine.
And this: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713) But I guess this is not the standard, since I don't see the prep cycle #2, for instance.

So, I guess that the original official routine is not available anymore. Right? :(
That's a pity...
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on February 26, 2017, 12:50:34 PM
I ask because there were two programs, the 4 day and Roberts hypertrophy mod.

for the former, which you are asking for, go to page 22 of this thread.


I've only found two external links in the whole Thread.
This - [url]http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041[/url] ([url]http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041[/url]) That isn't actually an external link, but neither a full routine.
And this: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713[/url] ([url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713[/url]) But I guess this is not the standard, since I don't see the prep cycle #2, for instance.

So, I guess that the original official routine is not available anymore. Right? :(
That's a pity...


Go to page 22 and read. There is more there.

I still think Roberts hypertrophy Mod. should still be here, but I don't know.



Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: dmeita on February 27, 2017, 10:01:00 AM
I ask because there were two programs, the 4 day and Roberts hypertrophy mod.

for the former, which you are asking for, go to page 22 of this thread.


I've only found two external links in the whole Thread.
This - [url]http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041[/url] ([url]http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.msg3041#msg3041[/url]) That isn't actually an external link, but neither a full routine.
And this: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713[/url] ([url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161467713[/url]) But I guess this is not the standard, since I don't see the prep cycle #2, for instance.

So, I guess that the original official routine is not available anymore. Right? :(
That's a pity...


Go to page 22 and read. There is more there.

I still think Roberts hypertrophy Mod. should still be here, but I don't know.


AFAIK this is page 22: http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.315 (http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?topic=313.315)
Nothing in there. I've read that, as well as the whole thread, no luck :(

The only thing I read related to this, is this, from you:
The spreadsheets are outdated. New programs are coming to the app and eventually the app will just create an individualized weekly program for one, which the spreadsheets could never do.

That said, I still have have the CMS spreadsheet and I can send it to you.


Could you send me this?
Thank you!
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: uhbhu on April 02, 2017, 01:41:53 AM
Replacing board press with (reactive) slingshot bench, reckon I should increase the weight as I'll have some momentum when I reach the point where a board press starts
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Lundstedt on May 15, 2017, 06:51:14 PM
I have two questions about this program

1. Is it okay to switch the 1x3,7,4,8,2,5 @ 70% squatting for something static with the same/similar volume such as 6*5 @70%

2. Since a lot of the training days have deadlift or squatting twice in one workout, is it okay to move the second round, to a different to another day? The intra training day volume and acute load will be smaller however the weekly volume will be the same with an increased frequency.
I would like to try this since I feel like my deadlifts are better if I squat before, I guess it properly warms me up.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RuneGlud on May 16, 2017, 12:36:56 AM
I have two questions about this program

1. Is it okay to switch the 1x3,7,4,8,2,5 @ 70% squatting for something static with the same/similar volume such as 6*5 @70%

2. Since a lot of the training days have deadlift or squatting twice in one workout, is it okay to move the second round, to a different to another day? The intra training day volume and acute load will be smaller however the weekly volume will be the same with an increased frequency.
I would like to try this since I feel like my deadlifts are better if I squat before, I guess it properly warms me up.
1. You can do as you wish and you will probably be just fine, but I'm sure Coach Sheiko planed it like that for a reason.

2. Same answer, only I think this might acctually be beneficial. Maybe you know about the experiment they did in Norway, with the same weekly program divided in 3 or 6 days. 6-day group did alot better.
I have personally just started on a similar experiment with my training.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: Lundstedt on May 16, 2017, 08:35:47 AM
I have two questions about this program

1. Is it okay to switch the 1x3,7,4,8,2,5 @ 70% squatting for something static with the same/similar volume such as 6*5 @70%

2. Since a lot of the training days have deadlift or squatting twice in one workout, is it okay to move the second round, to a different to another day? The intra training day volume and acute load will be smaller however the weekly volume will be the same with an increased frequency.
I would like to try this since I feel like my deadlifts are better if I squat before, I guess it properly warms me up.
1. You can do as you wish and you will probably be just fine, but I'm sure Coach Sheiko planed it like that for a reason.

2. Same answer, only I think this might acctually be beneficial. Maybe you know about the experiment they did in Norway, with the same weekly program divided in 3 or 6 days. 6-day group did alot better.
I have personally just started on a similar experiment with my training.

Thank you for the answer!

1. Yes I thought something similar and of course don't want to change something to make it noticably worse.

2. Yes, I've heard of that! I was curious if the higher frequency was outweighted by the higher acute training volume but I don't really know how much volume of for example squatting you need in 1 workout for it to be enough, maybe two rounds of squat in 1 workout could be better than squatting more times per week if it's done with proper volume.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: trandenny on June 23, 2017, 07:21:48 AM
If i just came from intermediate 3 day advanced load where should i start with the 4 day? (which load?)
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on June 23, 2017, 11:18:26 PM
If i just came from intermediate 3 day advanced load where should i start with the 4 day? (which load?)

Try out Medium load, if thats too much -> small load
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: trandenny on July 09, 2017, 08:32:13 AM
For the 4 day programs in the app. Should I run the prep cycles over and over and skip the comp cycle if I'm not competing? Or should I still run the comp cycle
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on July 09, 2017, 10:31:01 AM
This topic have been answered before.

Very short: No you should not skip the fase. It gives possibility to update maxes (if not done in prep) and offers deload from all the volume.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RuneGlud on July 09, 2017, 10:59:40 AM
This topic have been answered before.

Very short: No you should skip the fase. It gives possibility to update maxes (if not done in prep) and offers deload from all the volume.
I'm pretty sure you missed at "not".

You should NOT skip the comp-phase. Or at least you should do some deloading from time to time.
Title: Re: 4 Day Program
Post by: RussianBear on July 09, 2017, 01:41:28 PM
This topic have been answered before.

Very short: No you should skip the fase. It gives possibility to update maxes (if not done in prep) and offers deload from all the volume.
I'm pretty sure you missed at "not".

You should NOT skip the comp-phase. Or at least you should do some deloading from time to time.

Thanks for making me aware! I have edited my post :)