December 18, 2018, 09:15:39 PM

Author Topic: KIZEN Sheiko Programs  (Read 4790 times)

padrino

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« on: January 06, 2018, 12:09:51 PM »
Hey guys,

Do you heard about the new programs that kizen training tries to sell online from sheiko? They say they are the first ones who fully translate his work and now have the only real training programs from him.... I am really pissed off by these claims, because so much information is already translated here in this forum by great people and so much work went into his apps with great programs from sheiko himself in it.  I even was coached by sheiko himself and I am a little confused by these guys with their claims, because they are not true.

What do you guys think about it?

RussianBear

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 12:26:52 PM »
Hey guys,

Do you heard about the new programs that kizen training tries to sell online from sheiko? They say they are the first ones who fully translate his work and now have the only real training programs from him.... I am really pissed off by these claims, because so much information is already translated here in this forum by great people and so much work went into his apps with great programs from sheiko himself in it.  I even was coached by sheiko himself and I am a little confused by these guys with their claims, because they are not true.

What do you guys think about it?

Boris has translated some of his work here and even provided programs for the forum (which now are in the app). They are not the only one with real training programs from him.

I think they are just trying to sell their programs and earn some bucks. Honestly, I find it slightly distasteful the way they marketing but if Boris is cool with that, then I cannot see the harm.
"For one to press a lot, one must press a lot, comrade."

Lain

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 123
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 12:33:57 PM »
I'm not a guy but ;)

As far as I know those programs were created by Boris himself for them so it is not sth behind his back.

To "fully translate his work" one would have to translate his all books and articles, so I think this is just dummy  US style marketing, which I don't like and agree.

The KIZEN programs are just for intermediate lifters. In Boris app and here on the forum you have more.

I would suppose that for Boris this is a good move. He will get more visibility in US (e.g. more invitations for seminars) and still Cookie-Cutter Program would never replace personal training with him.
"Slavs' genes very stronk. Very stronk!"

padrino

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 02:15:14 PM »
Yeah it just pisses me off that they try to sell it this way. I find it a little disrespectfull to all the people who worked on this forum and on his app.

Robert Frederick

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 05:48:41 PM »
They say they are the first ones who fully translate his work and now have the only real training programs from him

Haha. Where did you see this?

padrino

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 06:27:38 PM »
They say they are the first ones who fully translate his work and now have the only real training programs from him

Haha. Where did you see this?
On their selling website:

RussianBear

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 06:29:38 PM »
They say they are the first ones who fully translate his work and now have the only real training programs from him

Haha. Where did you see this?

This is a quote from their page:

"Now for the first time, Professor Sheiko's methodology is properly translated into English with the full support of Professor Boris Sheiko. Included is an extensive interview overviewing the program, its intention and function. This is the most complete representation of the Sheiko methodology in the West. "

(link from 6th Jan: https://kizentraining.com/p/sheiko-intermediate-competitive )

I have attached a screenshot from their video too


"For one to press a lot, one must press a lot, comrade."

Robert Frederick

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 07:21:45 PM »
Got it.

So the part about "programs floating around on the internet" is a reference to the old spreadsheets. Fixing those is what started this whole project on the forum and with the apps. Those were floating around with his name on it and being used in a bastardized way. So he fixed those up a bit where it was needed, built a forum around them to provide info straight from the source, and here we are.

The rest is just sales hype. They've got 1 million plus subscribers between them on YouTube and there's a good chance 300+ (my estimate of their breakeven point) have never heard of Sheiko before and will buy based on the hype.

It is a little unfortunate though that in an effort to try and differentiate their programs from what is out there now, they requested 5-day programs and are now claiming they are for "intermediates", which they define as anyone not elite.

Check this: http://www.strongur.io/case-study-training-load-distribution/

The training schematic for the elite lifter comes from one of Boris' current champions. They still use a 4-day plan.

P.S. the shitty recreational schematic is mine. That's what happens when your gym sessions are like lab sessions and you're there to run experiments. Progress was much better on a standard schedule. Do M,W,F,S if you can. That's how the programs are designed to be run.   
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 07:31:28 PM by Robert Frederick »

Elysium

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 05:27:11 AM »
Absolutely disgusting  >:(

Also, is Boris getting a profit from this "new translated programs?" or did he authorized all of this?

if not, this could be a case of stealing intellectual property  :-\

Robert Frederick

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 08:01:09 AM »
Boris wrote the programs so they certainly didn't steal them. Boris was paid well for those programs. He also knew in advance about their website and that they were going to sell them through the site.

The only thing I dont think he was aware of is the specifics of the approach they would use to try and sell them. In the scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter anyway because I don't know who would pay $100 for some spreadsheet with a single program on it when there are much better options available (some will of course but not many). Meanwhile, Sheiko gets some additional exposure to a larger audience. They'll eventually find there way here and all will be right.  ;)

padrino

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 10:30:43 AM »
absolutely true.

but at least they sell good proven sheiko stuff and not some "detox tea".

keltor

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 04:49:46 AM »
Got it.

So the part about "programs floating around on the internet" is a reference to the old spreadsheets. Fixing those is what started this whole project on the forum and with the apps. Those were floating around with his name on it and being used in a bastardized way. So he fixed those up a bit where it was needed, built a forum around them to provide info straight from the source, and here we are.

The rest is just sales hype. They've got 1 million plus subscribers between them on YouTube and there's a good chance 300+ (my estimate of their breakeven point) have never heard of Sheiko before and will buy based on the hype.

It is a little unfortunate though that in an effort to try and differentiate their programs from what is out there now, they requested 5-day programs and are now claiming they are for "intermediates", which they define as anyone not elite.

Check this: http://www.strongur.io/case-study-training-load-distribution/

The training schematic for the elite lifter comes from one of Boris' current champions. They still use a 4-day plan.

P.S. the shitty recreational schematic is mine. That's what happens when your gym sessions are like lab sessions and you're there to run experiments. Progress was much better on a standard schedule. Do M,W,F,S if you can. That's how the programs are designed to be run.


I was under the impression that the typical elite Russian lifter was working out in upwards of 10 times a week.  Say like Belyaev, Mashintcov, or Goriachev.

Robert Frederick

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 06:41:19 AM »
There are a few special cases of both extremes -- high and low. Pozdeev was training 3x/week for example before this pull. But generally, 4x/week is most common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2AD4Kvj2M

keltor

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 06:51:36 AM »
There's probably some guy who only trains 1x a week of course.

Chreiz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: KIZEN Sheiko Programs
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2018, 03:10:46 PM »
I was under the impression that the typical elite Russian lifter was working out in upwards of 10 times a week.  Say like Belyaev, Mashintcov, or Goriachev.

Boris told me this was during the time they had a sponsor and lifters were paid full-time. They had workouts up to 8 times a week. I have seen some plans and it is quite extreme.
Nowadays he doesn't coach anyone who is a full-time athlete afaik, so this is why maximum 4-5 days a week.